Post by Mark on Jan 13, 2010 4:56:32 GMT -8
Yesterday, I received this message from Nehemia Gordon:
I have to say that I completely understand the frustration, and possibly consternation, at being continuously misrepresented by folks using one’s name to promote their own agenda. It is unfortunately all too common for people to grab hold of a specific point of theology that is associated with or identified by a specific name or title and claim that name or title for themselves- in this case, Messianic believers who have grabbed onto Nehemia’s understanding of the biblical calendar and then claimed his title "Karaite" as their own. This is similar to a discussion that we had earlier about Christian dudes who have gained for themselves a following based upon their enthusiasm toward Hebraic teachings and are now called "rabbi" for no other reason than the only alternative is "pastor".
I have to say to Nehemia, welcome to the club! There are more than 300 distinguishable conferences of "Baptist". There are over 32,000 different breeds of Christianity. There’s an embarrassingly stupid tendency among us to grab onto a title or heading that distinguishes us from other believers in Yeshua as the Messiah.
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
(1 Corinthians 1:10-13)
What is most frustrating, I presume, from Nehemia’s position is that the title he claims is even being associated with believers in Yeshua as the Messiah. Nehemia has clearly and repeatedly declared that he does not accept any of what we consider the New Testament Scriptures, and thereby denies categorically Yeshua’s Messiahship.
It is
and unfortunate that people will claim one element of the Karaite teaching, disregarding the rest, and still claim the title for themselves. Still, the fact is that there is a very organized and vocal group of people who have done just this.
Personally, I can’t argue in Nehemia’s defense because I fundamentally disagree with his argument- the premise that his own teaching is superior or somehow more accurate than the sages of Jewish antiquity? That Adonai would see fit to speak to Isaiah, and Jeremiah but not to Rashi or Gamaliel or Paul? From my learning and understanding, I can see from
that Yeshua is clearly demonstrated as the Messiah, as equally from that Tanakh and even supported in many places of Talmud. The Jewish dismissal of Yeshua as Messiah is, to my mind, equal to the atheist dismissal of the scientific evidences of God. Once the clearly obvious option is dismissed, evolution is the very best that they can get.
If Nehemia’s hope is to keep people from using the term Karaite as a definitive characteristic within the Messianic community, my hat’s off to him… but mission of this forum is not to control thought or restrain people from believing whatever they want to believe (since they are going to do it anyway). Yet, I very much appreciate and sympathize with his frustration.
Shalom Mark,
It has come to my attention that you recently posted the following on the Love of God forum:
"If the Messianic folk he has met are followers of Nehemia Gordon, their assumption is that all Messianic Jews are "Kairite". When they are exposed to others who are not, the result is often confusing and frustrating."
I am writing to clarify what appears to be some confusion about the definition of "Karaites" (notice the spelling). Karaites are Jews who believe strictly in the Hebrew Bible ("Old Testament"). The term Karaite derives from the Hebrew word "Kara", which is the ancient Jewish name for the Hebrew Bible. By definition there is no such thing as "Karaites" who are also Messianic because Messianics look not only to the "Old Testament" but also to the New Testament as Scripture. Furthermore, I do not have any "followers" who are Messianic although there may be many who reference my research and reject the authority of the rabbis.
I would appreciate it if you would correct the above points in your post.
Thank you in advance for your cooperation,
Nehemia Gordon
It has come to my attention that you recently posted the following on the Love of God forum:
"If the Messianic folk he has met are followers of Nehemia Gordon, their assumption is that all Messianic Jews are "Kairite". When they are exposed to others who are not, the result is often confusing and frustrating."
I am writing to clarify what appears to be some confusion about the definition of "Karaites" (notice the spelling). Karaites are Jews who believe strictly in the Hebrew Bible ("Old Testament"). The term Karaite derives from the Hebrew word "Kara", which is the ancient Jewish name for the Hebrew Bible. By definition there is no such thing as "Karaites" who are also Messianic because Messianics look not only to the "Old Testament" but also to the New Testament as Scripture. Furthermore, I do not have any "followers" who are Messianic although there may be many who reference my research and reject the authority of the rabbis.
I would appreciate it if you would correct the above points in your post.
Thank you in advance for your cooperation,
Nehemia Gordon
I have to say that I completely understand the frustration, and possibly consternation, at being continuously misrepresented by folks using one’s name to promote their own agenda. It is unfortunately all too common for people to grab hold of a specific point of theology that is associated with or identified by a specific name or title and claim that name or title for themselves- in this case, Messianic believers who have grabbed onto Nehemia’s understanding of the biblical calendar and then claimed his title "Karaite" as their own. This is similar to a discussion that we had earlier about Christian dudes who have gained for themselves a following based upon their enthusiasm toward Hebraic teachings and are now called "rabbi" for no other reason than the only alternative is "pastor".
I have to say to Nehemia, welcome to the club! There are more than 300 distinguishable conferences of "Baptist". There are over 32,000 different breeds of Christianity. There’s an embarrassingly stupid tendency among us to grab onto a title or heading that distinguishes us from other believers in Yeshua as the Messiah.
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
(1 Corinthians 1:10-13)
What is most frustrating, I presume, from Nehemia’s position is that the title he claims is even being associated with believers in Yeshua as the Messiah. Nehemia has clearly and repeatedly declared that he does not accept any of what we consider the New Testament Scriptures, and thereby denies categorically Yeshua’s Messiahship.
It is
and unfortunate that people will claim one element of the Karaite teaching, disregarding the rest, and still claim the title for themselves. Still, the fact is that there is a very organized and vocal group of people who have done just this. Personally, I can’t argue in Nehemia’s defense because I fundamentally disagree with his argument- the premise that his own teaching is superior or somehow more accurate than the sages of Jewish antiquity? That Adonai would see fit to speak to Isaiah, and Jeremiah but not to Rashi or Gamaliel or Paul? From my learning and understanding, I can see from
that Yeshua is clearly demonstrated as the Messiah, as equally from that Tanakh and even supported in many places of Talmud. The Jewish dismissal of Yeshua as Messiah is, to my mind, equal to the atheist dismissal of the scientific evidences of God. Once the clearly obvious option is dismissed, evolution is the very best that they can get. If Nehemia’s hope is to keep people from using the term Karaite as a definitive characteristic within the Messianic community, my hat’s off to him… but mission of this forum is not to control thought or restrain people from believing whatever they want to believe (since they are going to do it anyway). Yet, I very much appreciate and sympathize with his frustration.
