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Post by jimmie on Dec 18, 2015 15:03:46 GMT -8
Paul walked among and read the pagan devotions on Mars Hill according to Acts 17:22 & 23. We can’t concluded from this that he was observing/honoring any of them. But what can be concluded, from his actions and those of Jesus in John 10:22-39, is their willingness to meet sinners where they are and correct them by telling them about the One True God. If that can be done during the Feast of Dedication, then by all means do so.
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Post by alon on Dec 18, 2015 21:11:52 GMT -8
Paul walked among and read the pagan devotions on Mars Hill according to Acts 17:22 & 23. We can’t concluded from this that he was observing/honoring any of them. But what can be concluded, from his actions and those of Jesus in John 10:22-39, is their willingness to meet sinners where they are and correct them by telling them about the One True God. If that can be done during the Feast of Dedication, then by all means do so. Well, as I said- people who won't talk to me about Christmas will often talk about Chanukkah. Not sure about your analogy wit Rav Sha'ul on Mars Hill to Yeshua in the Temple, but I see your reasoning. And it's true- any where, any time, any situation these men were ready to preach or to rebuke, as was necessary.
Dan C
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Post by chrisg on Mar 22, 2016 8:22:22 GMT -8
alon, I follow your logic of delayed feasts due to war. However we are not at war now, so why not keep the feast at the appointed time. Mark argues from silence: since scripture doesn’t say that Jesus condemned the feast he must have partook of it. The Feast of Dedication is mentioned in Mark 10:22 to set up the discourse between Jesus and the Jews that follows. The Jews wanted to know if Jesus was the Christ/Messiah/Anointed. He had shown the Jews works but they refused to see Jesus as Christ. Yet they believed that one day of oil lasted 8 days, even though they had not seen it. Weather Jesus kept the Feast of Dedication, I don’t know. But he did use it to show the Jews their errors. I don’t keep the feast, nor do I contemn those who do. This view is really interesting to me. I have wondered why, when Jesus was in Jerusalem at the Feast of Dedication, that He didn't give His discourse on the Light of the World at this feast, but rather gave it at the Feast of Tabernacles earlier that same year. This might just provide the answer to that question - Jesus was saying possibly that the Feast of Tabernacles, when the Jews lit lamps as part of their ceremony, is the time to be celebrating light and in particular, Himself as the Light of the World. This is especially relevant when I read (I hadn't known this before) that the Feast of Dedication was a delayed celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles. .
However, I also accept that it is and has been a tradition of the Jews for centuries and could well have been included in Paul's comment about traditions - and not all traditions are wrong.
Since realising a few eye-opening things about the way Christians worship (and the way we shouldn't), I have been considering the family keeping the Feast of Dedication this year as an alternative to Christmas. My family has celebrated Christmas since all of us were babies, including in our home with our own children. Every year, they come home for the 'season' and stay a couple of weeks. I do not think any of them (including my husband) will understand if I try to cancel Christmas. But from what I have read about the way Hanukkah is celebrated, with lights and the giving of gifts, I can see a possible move towards less 'Christmas' and more biblical ways of doing things. It might be a compromise, but at least we might be able to forget the usual trappings of Christmas. |
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Post by jimmie on Mar 22, 2016 9:57:35 GMT -8
In my opinion it is better to be hot or cold rather than luke warm. Though your family has celebrated Christmas for a "long time". Have you considered most of the traditions of chritmas are less than 100 years old. Or that at one time it was illegal to celebrate christmas in England and her colonies. The Pilgrims and Puritians both rejected it. If you take up Hanukkah, don't do it as a compromise for christmas. Do it as a rejection of christmas.
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Post by chrisg on Mar 22, 2016 10:11:26 GMT -8
In my opinion it is better to be hot or cold rather than luke warm. Though your family has celebrated Christmas for a "long time". Have you considered most of the traditions of chritmas are less than 100 years old. Or that at one time it was illegal to celebrate christmas in England and her colonies. The Pilgrims and Puritians both rejected it. If you take up Hanukkah, don't do it as a compromise for christmas. Do it as a rejection of christmas. I see where you are coming from, but I wish it were that simple. I am the female/wife in my household, so I am unable to determine the course of our family - that privilege falls to my husband. I am 'working on him' (subtly) but I do not hold out much hope that by the end of this year he will have embraced the notion of no Christmas at all. He is slightly open to the idea of Hanukkah though, which I see as an inroad into his views becoming more in line with the teachings of the Bible |
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Post by jimmie on Mar 22, 2016 12:14:50 GMT -8
You will be in my prayers.
God Bless your efforts.
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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 22, 2016 12:56:53 GMT -8
In my opinion it is better to be hot or cold rather than luke warm. Though your family has celebrated Christmas for a "long time". Have you considered most of the traditions of chritmas are less than 100 years old. Or that at one time it was illegal to celebrate christmas in England and her colonies. The Pilgrims and Puritians both rejected it. If you take up Hanukkah, don't do it as a compromise for christmas. Do it as a rejection of christmas. I see where you are coming from, but I wish it were that simple. I am the female/wife in my household, so I am unable to determine the course of our family - that privilege falls to my husband. I am 'working on him' (subtly) but I do not hold out much hope that by the end of this year he will have embraced the notion of no Christmas at all. He is slightly open to the idea of Hanukkah though, which I see as an inroad into his views becoming more in line with the teachings of the Bible I haven't kept up with all of your posts. Based on what I have read, I hope it is accurate to say that your husband is open to change the more he learns and understands. Over time, especially if you work together and his heart is open, he will come around as G-d is G-d and truth is truth. With that in mind, I agree with your current approach if my impression is accurate. It seems this may be more about letting the process of change naturally take place then convincing your husband to change. Family unity is vital and a fundamental strength it seems you have going for you in that process. I will be praying for you and your husband as well. |
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Post by garrett on Mar 22, 2016 19:33:54 GMT -8
In my opinion it is better to be hot or cold rather than luke warm. Though your family has celebrated Christmas for a "long time". Have you considered most of the traditions of chritmas are less than 100 years old. Or that at one time it was illegal to celebrate christmas in England and her colonies. The Pilgrims and Puritians both rejected it. If you take up Hanukkah, don't do it as a compromise for christmas. Do it as a rejection of christmas. And not just as a "rejection" of christmas, but in my mind, a festival that you celebrate that simply happens to occur at a similar time of the season. I see Hanukkah as the festival in itself. christmas is just happening all around me in the meantime..... |
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Post by alon on Nov 27, 2017 13:36:17 GMT -8
Well, it's that time of year again; The time to celebrate a rejection of Christmas ... I mean, the time to celebrate Yeshua and forget about the son of Ishtar and the Asher Poles! Chanukkah is just a couple of weeks away. Erev Chanukkah is 12 December, 2017. Most of us will light the first candle on our Menorah just before or at sundown that day as on the Hebrew calendar (the Hillel Calendar which most of Judaism follows) the day of 25 Kislev 5778 begins at that time. Chaf Chanukkah sameach, ya'll!
Dan (feelin' festive) C
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Post by Elizabeth on Dec 2, 2017 13:05:44 GMT -8
Yeshua is already King, but because of who He is, He waits for His people to willingly acknowledge Him before claiming His full authority. What a tricky place to be as a King; waiting for people to willingly accept your authority before you act on it. G-d has to work through so much with His people before claiming His throne in a way consistent with His character, and Yeshua is the picture of this. I apologize for quoting myself, but wanted to reference this as I expand on something I have recently been thinking about. What I said at this time now means a lot more to me as I now see King David in this quote as well. I have been thinking more about David recently regarding the distinction between Messiah the Suffering Servant and Messiah the Conquering King. It has occurred to me a couple of times that that distinction is perhaps not as sharply defined between Joseph and David as we think, or at least as I have previously understood. In both of their lives we can see each role. Joseph was given a place of honor and royalty, and David suffered rejection and affliction. I don't know why this intrigues me exactly, but it seems important to consider this as we rely on the concept of a suffering servant extensively to explain our belief in a Messiah who suffered and was initially rejected. Here is what is striking to me. We can see the role of suffering and rejection if we look at David, specifically as it relates to Saul but also just in reading the Psalms. It's interesting to note that his rejection initiated within the Jewish leadership who was jealous of him. Further, we can see the kingly role in Joseph as he was second only to pharaoh in the land of Egypt. Even more intriguing is that he was given the position of honor by foreigners before his own brothers honored him, and while his brothers thought him dead and gone, he was securing their wellbeing while being elevated among the nations. Do you see where I am going with this? Perhaps we can see both the role of suffering servant and the conquering king in both Joseph and David? I am just putting this out there because I am not exactly sure what the ancient sages said regarding the two roles. We rely a lot on this idea, and I want to hear other people's thoughts or knowledge regarding it. I just don't think it is as distinctly represented by one and the other, namely Joseph and David. I think there is a lot of intriguing overlap within the lives of each individual that points to Yeshua the Messiah the Suffering Servant and Conquering King. |
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- there are 70 faces to 
