ginny
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by ginny on Nov 4, 2009 8:06:46 GMT -8
I have read all the info on Hanukkha that I could find. I also have read the one small reference to it in the bible.
Why is it that people assume that Yeshua celebrated when all it says is that he was walking in the temple? Maybe He was walking back and forth shaking His head at what the people were doing.
I don't know. Just asking. I hope no-one takes offense, just help me to understand. It seems like just another man-made thing. Just because something is in the Bible doesn't make it right.
In the Name of Yeshua the Messiah,
Ginny
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Post by Mark on Nov 7, 2009 5:00:42 GMT -8
Did Messiah Yeshua celebrate the Festival of Lights or was He just there?
From the text, as it stands, there is no reason to presume that He participated in any way. But, culturally, it would be more reasonable to assume that He did participate. If Billy Graham snubbed the Fourth of July, it would certainly be something that the Christian community would be buzzing about for a long time. Yet, if he celebrated the national holiday year after year with enthusiasm, what news is that?
Hanukkah was very much the same sort of holiday as our Independence Day. It would have been worth mentioning had He not involved Himself; but His celebration would have been assumed; but Yeshua was a Jew who lived and participated in the Jewish culture like any other Jew might. Let’s up the ante a little bit.
Paul admonishes the gentile congregation of Thessalonica in the strongest possible language to "hold fast to the traditions which you have been taught…" in 2nd Thessalonians 2:15. Interesting that he should say, "traditions": not "law", not "doctrine", not "theology". Did he mean Christmas and Easter? No, he was referring to the traditions of Judaism which supported and demonstrated the relationship between God and His people.
Did Paul live like a gentile when he was among the gentiles? (1st Corinthians 9:20-22). If he did then he lied to the Jewish leadership in Rome:
And it came to pass, that after three days Paul called the chief of the Jews together: and when they were come together, he said unto them, Men [and] brethren, though I have committed nothing against the people, or customs of our fathers, yet was I delivered prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans.
(Act 28:17)
The word "customs" in Acts 28:17 is the same word translated "traditions" in 2nd Thessalonians 2:15. If we can believe that Paul is speaking truthfully to the Roman Jews, then we must conclude that Paul’s lifestyle was consistently Jewish- and yet he tells gentiles to mimic him in the way that he behaves (1st Corinthians 4:14, Philippians 3:17).
Does this mean that you have to celebrate Hanukkah? Here’s a news flash. You don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do. But, what we’ve found in our desire to walk more intimately with our Messiah every day, we assume a more Jewish identity, being molded more and more into His image.
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ginny
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by ginny on Nov 7, 2009 7:36:14 GMT -8
Dear Mark, Thanks for the response. It is not that I don't want to do it. I don't want to become pharisaical. I don't know how to do that, yet.  Your arguments are good and I will have to meditate more on it. I am already asking YHWH to show me the truth and to lead me in the path of righteousness. Actually, the holiday attracts me, but I didn't want to do it just because it was attractive. Do you know what I mean? Thanks, again. In the Name of Yeshua the Messiah, Ginny |
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Post by Mark on Nov 7, 2009 8:08:21 GMT -8
Hi Ginny,
I know exactly what you mean. What I've found is that we are irresistibly drawn by the Spirit of Adonai toward worship. If we manufacture it on our own and sustain it by our own abilities, it is confused, forced and academic. As we are drawn by Him, it is fluid, natural and focused upon Him. It is easy to tell the difference- as you seek a relationship with Him as opposed to looking to have something to show. Don't be concerned with getting everything right. Set these special times aside to spend with the Messiah and He will build your understanding and ownership of these things over time.
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Post by alon on Jul 8, 2015 21:23:50 GMT -8
I have read all the info on Hanukkha that I could find. I also have read the one small reference to it in the bible. ... It seems like just another man-made thing. ... ... It is not that I don't want to do it. I don't want to become pharisaical. ...
The only time I can find in the Bible when God dealt with a similar thing is:
Zechariah 7:3-9 (CJB) as they inquired of the cohanim of the house of Adonai-Tzva’ot and the prophets, “Should we go into mourning and abstain from pleasure during the fifth month, as we have been doing for all these years?” It was then that this message came to me from Adonai-Tzva’ot: “Speak to all the people of the land and to the cohanim. Tell them, ‘When you fasted and mourned in the fifth and seventh months throughout these seventy years, were you really fasting for me? Was it for me? Rather, when you eat and drink, it’s just to please yourselves, isn’t it? Isn’t this just what Adonai proclaimed through the earlier prophets, when Yerushalayim was inhabited and prosperous, as were the cities around her; and the Negev and the Sh’felah were inhabited?’” Then this message from Adonai came to Z’kharyah: “In the past Adonai-Tzva’ot said, ‘Administer true justice. Let everyone show mercy and compassion to his brother.'"
God didn't chastise them for observing fasts over the destruction of the Temple in the 5th month, or observing the Fast of Gedalia in the 7th month over the end of the independence of Judah. He was upset with their heart condition, the same as He always is. Traditions are not bad things. The way we keep them is what counts!
2 Thessalonians 2:15 (CJB) Therefore, brothers, stand firm; and hold to the traditions you were taught by us, whether we spoke them or wrote them in a letter.
Dan C
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Post by alon on Dec 6, 2015 19:03:23 GMT -8
Chanukkah means “dedication.” It is the feast of the rededication of the Temple after The Maccabees retook it from Antiochu Epiphanies in 164 BCE. What most do not know is it was actually a delayed celebration of Sukkoth, which was postponed due to the Jews being at war.
Looking at h the Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition Bible- a translation from the Vulgate (Latin Bible):
2 Maccabees 1:7-9 (DRA) 7 When Demetrius reigned, in the year one hundred and sixty-nine, we Jews wrote to you, in the trouble, and violence, that came upon us in those years, after Jason withdrew himself from the holy land, and from the kingdom.
8 They burnt the gate, and shed innocent blood: then we prayed to the Lord, and were heard, and we offered sacrifices, and fine flour, and lighted the lamps, and set forth the loaves.
9 And now celebrate ye the days of Scenopegia in the month of Casleu.
According to the Oxford Latin Dictionary:
Scenopegia Pronunciation: /ˌsɛnə(ʊ)ˈpiːdʒə/ noun
Definition of Scenopegia in English: The Jewish Feast of Tabernacles, commemorating the dwelling of the Israelites in tents during their time in the wilderness.
And the Glosbe Hebrew English and Latin Dictionary says that Casleu is the third month of the civil year and the ninth month of the Jewish sacred year on the Hebrew calendar, the month of Kislev, falling in November-December of the Gregorian calendar.
They are talking about the rededication of the Temple in a delayed Sukkot celebration. This is why the need for at least eight days of light for the Menorah. According to the legend, it also took eight days to make enough oil to keep the lamp lit, yet the one days supply sufficed to light the Menorah for the necessary eight days!
So 2 Maccabees tells us in ch. 1 vs. 9 they celebrated Sukkot in the month of Kislev instead of on 15 Tishrei. Vs. 18 tells us it was on 25 Kislev:
2 Maccabees 1:18 (DRA) Therefore whereas we purpose to keep the purification of the temple on the five and twentieth day of the month of Casleu, we thought it necessary to signify it to you: that you also may keep the day of Scenopegia, and the day of the fire, that was given when Nehemias offered sacrifice, after the temple and the altar was built.
Nehemiah dedicated the Temple and the walls of the city on Sukkot:
Nehemiah 8:1-2 (DRA) And the seventh month came: and the children of Israel were in their cities. And all the people were gathered together as one man to the street which is before the water gate, and they spoke to Esdras the scribe, to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the Lord had commanded to Israel. Then Esdras the priest brought the law before the multitude of men and women, and all those that could understand, in the first day of the seventh month. … And they found written in the law, that the Lord had commanded by the hand of Moses, that the children of Israel should dwell in tabernacles, on the feast, in the seventh month: And that they should proclaim and publish the word in all their cities, and in Jerusalem, saying: Go forth to the mount, and fetch branches of olive, and branches of beautiful wood, branches of myrtle, and branches of palm, and branches of thick trees, to make tabernacles, as it is written.
Ezra 3:1-4 (DRA) And now the seventh month was come, and the children of Israel were in their cities: and the people gathered themselves together as one man to Jerusalem. And Josue the son of Josedec rose up, and his brethren the priests, and Zorobabel the son of Salathiel, and his brethren, and they built the altar of the God of Israel that they might offer holocausts upon it, as it is written in the law of Moses the man of God. And they set the altar of God upon its bases, while the people of the lands round about put them in fear, and they offered upon it a holocaust to the Lord morning and evening. And they kept the feast of tabernacles, as it is written, and offered the holocaust every day orderly according to the commandment, the duty of the day in its day.
Solomons Temple was also dedicated on Sukkot:
1 Kings 8:1-2 (DRA) Then all the ancients of Israel with the princes of the tribes, and the heads of the families of the children of Israel were assembled to king Solomon in Jerusalem: that they might carry the ark of the covenant of the Lord out of the city of David, that is, out of Sion. And all Israel assembled themselves to king Solomon on the festival day in the month of Ethanim, the same is the seventh month. … And the king, and all Israel him, offered victims before the Lord. And Solomon slew victims of peace offerings, which he sacrificed to the Lord, two and twenty thousand oxen, and hundred and twenty thousand sheep: so the king, and the children of Israel dedicated the temple of the Lord.
Looking up Ethanim in biblestudytools.com, we find : Ethanim- the month of gifts, i.e., of vintage offerings; called Tisri after the Exile; corresponding to part of September and October. It was the first month of the civil year, and the seventh of the sacred year ( 1 Kings 8:2 ).
Moshe came down the mountain the second time with instructions to build the Mishkan, which was started then on Sukkot. And Yeshua was conceived on Chanukkah and born during Sukkot. So there is a rich history tying Sukkot and Chanukkah together.
Now we’ve seen that the Temples were dedicated during Sukkot, so it was natural for the Maccabees to rededicate it on a delayed celebration of Sukkot. This falls in line too with Hillel’s 4th rule of Biblical exegesis- binyab ab mishene kethubim (Building up a "family" from two or more texts); where a principle is established by relating two texts together.
To continue that thought, we must ask “Is there a biblical example of a delayed feast?"
Numbers 9:6-11 (DRA) But behold some who were unclean by occasion of the soul of a man, who could not make the phase on that day, coming to Moses and Aaron, Said to them: We are unclean by occasion of the soul of a man. Why are we kept back that we may not offer in its season the offering to the Lord among the children of Israel? And Moses answered them: Stay that I may consult the Lord what he will ordain concerning you. And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: Say to the children of Israel: The man that shall be unclean by occasion of one that is dead, or shall be in a journey afar off in your nation, let him make the phase to the Lord. In the second month, on the fourteenth day of the month in the evening, they shall eat it with unleavened bread and wild lettuce:
So the answer is yes, there is a similar delay of a feast which is precedent for the delay of Sukkot due to war and the need to rededicate the Temple.
Dan C
Based on a teaching by Rav S and a little of my own studies.
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Post by jimmie on Dec 7, 2015 10:51:33 GMT -8
alon,
I follow your logic of delayed feasts due to war. However we are not at war now, so why not keep the feast at the appointed time. Mark argues from silence: since scripture doesn’t say that Jesus condemned the feast he must have partook of it. The Feast of Dedication is mentioned in Mark 10:22 to set up the discourse between Jesus and the Jews that follows. The Jews wanted to know if Jesus was the Christ/Messiah/Anointed. He had shown the Jews works but they refused to see Jesus as Christ. Yet they believed that one day of oil lasted 8 days, even though they had not seen it. Weather Jesus kept the Feast of Dedication, I don’t know. But he did use it to show the Jews their errors. I don’t keep the feast, nor do I contemn those who do.
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Post by alon on Dec 7, 2015 12:02:15 GMT -8
alon, I follow your logic of delayed feasts due to war. However we are not at war now, so why not keep the feast at the appointed time. Mark argues from silence: since scripture doesn’t say that Jesus condemned the feast he must have partook of it. The Feast of Dedication is mentioned in Mark 10:22 to set up the discourse between Jesus and the Jews that follows. The Jews wanted to know if Jesus was the Christ/Messiah/Anointed. He had shown the Jews works but they refused to see Jesus as Christ. Yet they believed that one day of oil lasted 8 days, even though they had not seen it. Weather Jesus kept the Feast of Dedication, I don’t know. But he did use it to show the Jews their errors. I don’t keep the feast, nor do I contemn those who do.
We believe many things which we have not seen.
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
However you raise a good question. The simple answer is you are correct, it is not a commanded feast, therefore outside any governing authority such as a Beit Din to which you have submitted yourself you are not required to observe Chanukkah. Living in a divided house I cannot keep it as it should be, and I am (by my own consent) subject to a Beit Din. And they understand. However there are reasons I think which would compel me to observe this feast regardless.
First off it is tradition. Although I don’t follow every tradition of Judaism, I do hold the view that all traditions are not bad.
Gal 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
As I have said before, the traditions I do observe have the purpose of reminding me who I am and who I serve. They bring and or keep me closer to God. Chanukkah does this. Even without the food and fellowship it brings people in the parent synagogue, just lighting the candles and saying the prayers helps me focus on Him in a time when the rest of the country is in a feeding frenzy over a pagan holiday. This is a holiday most if not all of us until relatively recently observed ourselves, so anything that redirects those feelings of loss over things of my pagan past is a good thing. I would think if you have young children at home this would be especially important.
It is also a witness. Everyone knows I keep this tradition, and while they don’t want to hear how bad Christmas is, they are willing, even eager to talk to me about Chanukkah.
I also believe the feast is Biblical. 1 & 2 Maccabees are part of the Deuterocannon which is, as far as I can see, in agreement with the 66 books we call the Bible (and which are the absolute authority) but which contains much history and many lessons I think we need. For one, it is where the Catholics get there strong faith, which they are known for, from . It also contains the Chanukkah story and is the foundation for the feast.
The idea of a cannon is a Gentile thing in the first place. While it is true the Jews have more or less canonized the TNK, they see all writing which does not disagree with  as profitable for instruction. Even in Christianity there are many different cannons regarding scripture. So while I do hold our Bible as as being authoritative, I see nothing wrong in gleaning lessons elsewhere. Just as long as we bring it all back to our base, the 66 books Bible of most Protestant denominations, and especially . We do have to be careful as there are fraudulent books and books which seem OK but contain the seeds of destruction. The book of Enoch, proven to be a pseudepigraphical text is a good example of these points. So are 3 & 4 Maccabees. There is apparently a 5th book of Macabees, which I have never seen and is not in the Apocrypha, so I'd have my doubts about it as well. However in addition to 1 & 2 Maccabees, the book of Judith is an excellent book to study. It was left out because it was thought other books covered the lessons adequately. However there are traditions and history lessons in Judith that are more than worth understanding.
John 10:22-23 (DRA) And it was the feast of the dedication at Jerusalem: and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon's porch.
The Feast of Dedication is another name for Chanukkah.
The idea that Yeshua was keeping Chanukkah is inferred from the time He was in the Temple. However this is a weak form of logic, and so is more than up for challenge. It is one you can believe or not- you ain’t goin’ to Hell over it in either case. But even in your case where you chose not to observe Chanukkah, I hope this information will help you come to a deeper meaningfulness in your observance of Sukkot.
Dan C
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Post by jimmie on Dec 7, 2015 15:27:29 GMT -8
[quote author=" alon" source="/post/19852/thread" timestamp="1449518535 Even without the food and fellowship it brings people in the parent synagogue, just lighting the candles and saying the prayers helps me focus on Him in a time when the rest of the country is in a feeding frenzy over a pagan holiday. This is a holiday most if not all of us until relatively recently observed ourselves, so anything that redirects those feelings of loss over things of my pagan past is a good thing. I would think if you have young children at home this would be especially important. It is also a witness. Everyone knows I keep this tradition, and while they don’t want to hear how bad Christmas is, they are willing, even eager to talk to me about Chanukkah. Dan C [/p][/quote] I guess this is where my problem lies. Hanukkha appears to be a Jewish alternative to Christmas/festival of lights. I have studied many cultures and they all seem to have a festival of lights that occurs around the winter solstice. When I studied with the Jehovah Witness, shortly after getting married, I learned to esskew holidays that had pagan roots so I only celebrated one christmas after I got married. Before, that my family stopped celebrating any holiday's, when I was 7 years old. My father gave no other reason than I was to old for them now. So even though I have had young children in the house for 31 years, I don't have any longing to replace christmas. The information about Hanukkha being a delayed Sukkot does help me come to a deeper of my observance of Sukkot as well as the historical value of the original Hanukkha. |
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Post by alon on Dec 7, 2015 16:08:22 GMT -8
There may be some truth to your statement it is a Jewish alternative to Christmas; but only in that its popularity apparently increased greatly in the 1970's here in the US. Though not a part of the Chanukkah tradition, many Jewish families give gifts so their children do not feel left out while the Gentile kiddies are being bombarded by commercialism. This was not the original intention of the holiday, so I don't fill any corporate coffers or the pockets of the Hallmark folks either. I figure just because others do it doesn't mean I have to. And it seems to me the practice of making it a replacement for Christmas would make it the same as. Might as well get on the "Ho-Ho-Ho" wagon ... err, I mean sleigh. Not happinin'!
That said, if anyone here does give gifts or cards I'm not going to condemn them either. We are all finding our way here, and what works for me may not work for thee. It'd be silly to argue about something so trivial. I'll argue proper doctrine until the reindeer are all in the barn. But how, or even if you observe a non-commanded feast wouldn't seem to be that serious- except in one case.
If anyone were to put up an argument against it because they were anti-Semitic, I'd be all over that. And there are some calling themselves Messianic who are, believe it or nor, anti-Semites. Go figure. The name of our movement is, after all, Messianic Judaism!
Anyhow, glad the information was helpful to you. It was to me when Rav S presented it, so after doing my own study I thought I'd share it here.
Chag Chanukkah Sameach!
 Dan C |
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Post by Elizabeth on Dec 7, 2015 19:27:51 GMT -8
You both touched on some of my thoughts about it, but yours are more thoroughly informed.
The one thing Christmas and Chanukah have in commen is the commemoration of a miracle. I think the feasts G-d commands move beyond just that. Though they may include the remembrance of a miracle, the deeper meaning beyond the miracle seems to protect us from a shallow or self-focus.
Unfortunately it seems like Chanukah is getting a bit wrapped up in the generic glittery "holiday spirit" so rampant in our culture. I don't know enough of its observance, and I know there is great diversity in it's religious importance to Jewish individuals. I am only making a limited socio-cultural observation.
I agree we need a defense against Christmas, but not in a way that makes us more worldly by giving into worldly pressures. When we remember a miracle, even just in prayer, it always drive us back to a rememberance and gratitude of why we obey G-d.
That's one thing I love about Judaism. The next obvious and immediate thought after "look at what G-d did for us" is "and that's why we choose to listen and obey Him". At least that's been my experience as I learn more about Judaism and the feasts.
It's that complete thought Christianity never seems to get to. Christmas and Easter stop at what G-d did for us. The feasts of G-d take us to the response we should make in return; we will obey you.
I don't know enough about Chanukah to know if it generally arrives at the response that, to me, seems so inherent to Judaism. I think we need to make sure in celebrating Chanukah that the complete thought is being preserved. We want to keep it in a way to avoid even the appearance of the worldliness of our culture this time of year. It is definitely made more difficult with young children, but then even more important. We are all about setting ourselves apart so the motivation behind keeping it shouldn't be so we aren't left out. ( as hard as that may be)
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Post by alon on Dec 8, 2015 16:12:57 GMT -8
The one thing Christmas and Chanukah have in commen is the commemoration of a miracle. I think the feasts G-d commands move beyond just that. Though they may include the remembrance of a miracle, the deeper meaning beyond the miracle seems to protect us from a shallow or self-focus. Unfortunately it seems like Chanukah is getting a bit wrapped up in the generic glittery "holiday spirit" so rampant in our culture. I don't know enough of its observance, and I know there is great diversity in it's religious importance to Jewish individuals. I am only making a limited socio-cultural observation. I agree we need a defense against Christmas, but not in a way that makes us more worldly by giving into worldly pressures. When we remember a miracle, even just in prayer, it always drive us back to a rememberance and gratitude of why we obey G-d. That's one thing I love about Judaism. The next obvious and immediate thought after "look at what G-d did for us" is "and that's why we choose to listen and obey Him". At least that's been my experience as I learn more about Judaism and the feasts. It's that complete thought Christianity never seems to get to. Christmas and Easter stop at what G-d did for us. The feasts of G-d take us to the response we should make in return; we will obey you. I don't know enough about Chanukah to know if it generally arrives at the response that, to me, seems so inherent to Judaism. I think we need to make sure in celebrating Chanukah that the complete thought is being preserved. We want to keep it in a way to avoid even the appearance of the worldliness of our culture this time of year. It is definitely made more difficult with young children, but then even more important. We are all about setting ourselves apart so the motivation behind keeping it shouldn't be so we aren't left out. ( as hard as that may be) Chanukkah is what we make it. You have arrived exactly at the essence of this and all traditions I keep. I am sure that there are many who have lost the meaning as you have stated it; however I wouldn't let them keep you from enjoying the holiday.
As to Christmas celebrating a miracle, they hijacked a miracle that even they know did not occur on Christmas so they could put a veneer over their worship of the birth of the son of Ishtar and the Winter solstice. Lighting a Menorah while saying prayers, and possibly getting together and eating or fellowshipping is a far cry from all the pagan excesses going on around us. Furthermore the real miracle similar to Christmas was not just the light of the Menorah, but that the Light of the World was conceived on Chanukkah and later born on Sukkot; to tabernacle with us on the same holiday! Remember, Chanukkah is a delayed celebration of Sukkot!
Given these things, Chanukkah doesn't so much replace Christmas for me as it sets the record straight and, as you and I both are saying keeps our focus where it should be. I quit Christmas long before I started keeping Chanukkah, so there is no need for a replacement. But there is always a need to get things right in both perspective and understanding.
Dan C
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Post by Elizabeth on Dec 12, 2015 15:21:41 GMT -8
"Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. And Yehsua walked in the temple, in Solomon's porch. Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, "How long do You keep us in doubt? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly."
Is it a reasonable consideration that they were asking Yeshua this question for more than just proof, but almost like a dare?
Yeshua goes on to say "I told you, and you do not believe. The works I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. But you do not believe because you are not My sheep, ..."
In Matthew 23 Yeshua says
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, Blessed is He who comes in the name of the L-rd!"
Yeshua is already King, but because of who He is, He waits for His people to willingly acknowledge Him before claiming His full authority. What a tricky place to be as a King; waiting for people to willingly accept your authority before you act on it. G-d has to work through so much with His people before claiming His throne in a way consistent with His character, and Yeshua is the picture of this.
You both stated that Yeshua's celebration of Chanukah is debatable. Nevertheless, this image of Yeshua walking in the Temple during Chanukah, rows of curtains between Him and the dwelling place, while being tempted to claim His Kingship by people in the wrong heart is really touching. It's a picture of how passionately loving and patient He is. I can't wrap my mind around how beautiful and gracious that is, but it does seem striking that it occurred at this specific time. I don't know how it fits in with the tradition or the celebration of Chanukah, but this image of Yeshua just walking in the temple on Chanukah is really touching.
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Post by alon on Dec 13, 2015 3:28:01 GMT -8
"Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. And Yehsua walked in the temple, in Solomon's porch. Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, "How long do You keep us in doubt? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly." Is it a reasonable consideration that they were asking Yeshua this question for more than just proof, but almost like a dare? Yeshua goes on to say "I told you, and you do not believe. The works I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. But you do not believe because you are not My sheep, ..." ... Yeshua is already King, but because of who He is, He waits for His people to willingly acknowledge Him before claiming His full authority. What a tricky place to be as a King; waiting for people to willingly accept your authority before you act on it. G-d has to work through so much with His people before claiming His throne in a way consistent with His character, and Yeshua is the picture of this. You both stated that Yeshua's celebration of Chanukah is debatable. Nevertheless, this image of Yeshua walking in the Temple during Chanukah, rows of curtains between Him and the dwelling place, while being tempted to claim His Kingship by people in the wrong heart is really touching. It's a picture of how passionately loving and patient He is. I can't wrap my mind around how beautiful and gracious that is, but it does seem striking that it occurred at this specific time. I don't know how it fits in with the tradition or the celebration of Chanukah, but this image of Yeshua just walking in the temple on Chanukah is really touching. Actually Yeshua would have been more like a crown prince come to lay claim to the throne at this time. The people knew He was of the royal bloodline, and next in line for the throne. What He was being asked was when, and indeed if He was there to lead another revolt, reestablishing the Davidic throne and taking His rightful place on it. People need assurances before they go to war. What they did not understand was that this was a different kind of war they were being called to, with the actual conquest and establishment of the throne to come centuries later. Since He was the Jewish heir apparent and had announced His ministry, then set about doing all the things HaMoshiach was supposed to do, and since the time of celebrating the last Sukkot/Chanukkah and rededication of the Temple was at hand, this would have been a topic on everyone's mind. So it would be natural for them to ask Yeshua these questions. I think part of the reason He did not answer them directly was they were looking for a Messiah to lead them in battle, throwing off the yoke of Roman oppression and establishing His rule in the eternal city. This was not why he came that time.
This is all part of the inductive argument that Yeshua celebrated Chanukkah. All the events surrounding this feast seem to fall into place, though not stated and certainly not in a way you could point to and say definitely He was.
Dan C
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Post by alon on Dec 17, 2015 9:10:43 GMT -8
I don't mean to belabor the point, and Chanukkah is past now, but still ...
John 10:22-30 (ESV) At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”
So are there hints here that say Yeshua was observing Chanukkah? Dr. Mitch Glasser of Chosen People Ministries, a Jew who has converted to mainstream Christianity thinks Yeshua "infuse(s) new meaning to the traditional festival of lights and redemption by showing the linkage between Himself and the Father." So let's look at what is said here:
At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem- so the time of this account IS during Chanukkah.
Jesus was walking in the temple- Yeshua was in the Temple
in the colonnade of Solomon- it was Solomon who had the First Temple built and dedicated
If you are the Christ, tell us- some of the Jews, knowing Yeshua was the first in line to inherit the throne of Melech Dovid, and knowing He was said to be fulfilling all the things that were expected of HaMoshiach when He came were looking for assurances of who Yeshua was
The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me- Yeshua rebukes them because here, in the Temple during a feast set aside to remember a miracle which Elohim had performed for their ancestors, they could not believe the miracles being performed in their midst
I and the Father are one- just as Sukkot and Chanukkah are one and the same, so this man conceived during Chanukkah and born during Sukkot; this man Yeshua and the Father are One
Now again, these "arguments" are inductive reasoning and therefore are not set in stone. However isn't this the essence of faith? Many things in the Bible are ambiguous, to say the least. Look at some of the livelier discussions held on this forum if you doubt that is true! So for those who wish to believe that Chanukkah is a valid feast day even though it was not in , I hope yours was a happy one! And when our Christian "brethren" get after us for not wanting to celebrate the birth of Jesus next week, you can tell them that we, like Millions of Jews before us, celebrate both the conception AND birth of the Messiah! That should blow their limited little minds for a while ... 
Dan C
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