Otto
New Member
Posts: 32
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Post by Otto on Jun 5, 2008 0:29:34 GMT -8
What do you do on Shavuot?
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Post by Mark on Jun 6, 2008 4:06:25 GMT -8
HI Otto, Shavaot is traditionally the anniversry of the giving of  to the people Israel at Sinai. It's other name is Pentecost. It is a  that such is an important day is often overlooked in the Messianic community (and utterly ignored in many Churches). Since the festival does not have a lot of detailed traditions attached to it, it requires little preparation and thus is easily forgotten. Here's what we do: Traditionally, since this holiday falls in the bounty of harvest, there is a "milk-feast" in which dairy products are served (as opposed to meats). For us, that means desserts. Traditionally, the book of Ruth is read, also relating to the harvest; but for us, the inclusion of the gentiles into this faith, as Ruth the Moabitess, is a significant factor. So, we eat desserts and read the book of Ruth together (sometimes assigning parts and sometimes having the kids dress up and act out the story). We've also come up with some games that keep it very lively. Here is a rabbinical perspective on celebrating the holiday: ohr.edu/yhiy/article.php/994#CUSTOMSMark |
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Post by jimmie on May 30, 2014 8:42:30 GMT -8
Lev 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD.
18 And ye shall offer with the bread seven lambs without blemish of the first year, and one young bullock, and two rams: they shall be for a burnt offering unto the LORD, with their meat offering, and their drink offerings, even an offering made by fire, of sweet savour unto the LORD.
19 Then ye shall sacrifice one kid of the goats for a sin offering, and two lambs of the first year for a sacrifice of peace offerings.
20 And the priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits for a wave offering before the LORD with the two lambs: they shall be holy to the LORD for the priest.
21 And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.
We know that Moses received the law in the third month. I have not been able to reckon an exact date. But 50 days from passover gets to the third month. Therefore I don’t think it is a stretch for the law to have been given to Moses on the Feast of Weeks. I believe the two loaves mentioned in the above passage are in reference to the two tables of stone that the law was given on. The two loaves remind us that we live by the word of God not by bread alone.
Acts 2:2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
So on the commemoration of the giving of the law, the Holy Ghost shows up with wind and fire upon people instead of a mountain, moving the law from stone to flesh. In other words, he will bring all thing to our remembrance.
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Post by Questor on May 31, 2014 22:39:34 GMT -8
Lev 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete: 16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD. 17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD. 18 And ye shall offer with the bread seven lambs without blemish of the first year, and one young bullock, and two rams: they shall be for a burnt offering unto the LORD, with their meat offering, and their drink offerings, even an offering made by fire, of sweet savour unto the LORD. 19 Then ye shall sacrifice one kid of the goats for a sin offering, and two lambs of the first year for a sacrifice of peace offerings. 20 And the priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits for a wave offering before the LORD with the two lambs: they shall be holy to the LORD for the priest. 21 And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations. We know that Moses received the law in the third month. I have not been able to reckon an exact date. But 50 days from passover gets to the third month. Therefore I don’t think it is a stretch for the law to have been given to Moses on the Feast of Weeks. I believe the two loaves mentioned in the above passage are in reference to the two tables of stone that the law was given on. The two loaves remind us that we live by the word of God not by bread alone. Acts 2:2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. So on the commemoration of the giving of the law, the Holy Ghost shows up with wind and fire upon people instead of a mountain, moving the law from stone to flesh. In other words, he will bring all thing to our remembrance.
Well spoken!
Shavuot is one of the three pilgramage festivals that will be kept in the Kingdom under Yehoshua.
Generally, it is treated as a Sabbath in Israel...Jews keep it for the giving of , and Messianic Beleivers keep for the Giving of the , and the Giving of the Ruach to be able to keep the perfectly one day, by writing the onto our hearts so that we do them as easily as we breathe.
Jews and Messianic Believers in the Diaspora keep it for two days...presumably to overlap the actual time it is kept in Israel, so that we all celebrate together for a portion of the day.
Milk products are particularly in demand...Cheese cake, Ice Cream, Cheese Blintzes as Shavuot marks the giving of and the sudden necessity to watch eating meat and milk products together.
I get around the problem by cooking with goat's milk...! |
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Post by alon on Jun 5, 2014 12:01:36 GMT -8
Actually, I had a good Shavuot this year. I spent Erev Shavuot in study, and before darkness I had some neighbors over for a BBQ. I was able to share with them that from sundown to sundown it would be Shavuot, and what that meant. One of them is Pentecostal, and predictably had no idea! (I just get a perverse thrill out of doing that to them  ). Most of the day was spent resting, but from mid afternoon to sundown we had fellowship with Messianic believers from around the region! And sundown in this latitude is late- about 9:30- so it was a lot of fellowship! Between mouthfuls, that is ... something about becoming Jewish proselytes, even ex-Gentiles can cook much better! I ate a lot of cheesecake, starting with a salmon cheesecake (my kind of healthy eating, right there!). But mostly the fellowship was good.
Dan C
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Post by Questor on Jun 5, 2014 20:06:53 GMT -8
I get around the problem by cooking with goat's milk...! What? you made a funny, i hope.
I don't seeth veal in cows milk, although the likelyhood of a slice of veal being nearly related to the cow I am getting milk from is highly unlikely these days, nor if I were preparing a young goat would I use any goats milk in preparing it. I could use a cows milk, if I wanted to...no commandment in the Scriptures say otherwise.
Adonai had no difficulty eating bread, curds, milk and roast meat together...why should I?
Genesis 18:1-8 (CJB)
1 Adonai appeared to Avraham by the oaks of Mamre as he sat at the entrance to the tent during the heat of the day.
2 He raised his eyes and looked, and there in front of him stood three men. On seeing them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, prostrated himself on the ground,
3 and said, “My lord, if I have found favor in your sight, please don’t leave your servant.
4 Please let me send for some water, so that you can wash your feet; then rest under the tree,
5 and I will bring a piece of bread. Now that you have come to your servant, refresh yourselves before going on.” “Very well,” they replied, “do what you have said.”
6 Avraham hurried into the tent to Sarah and said, “Quickly, three measures of the best flour! Knead it and make cakes.”
7 Avraham ran to the herd, took a good, tender calf and gave it to the servant, who hurried to prepare it.
8 Then he took curds, milk and the calf which he had prepared, and set it all before the men; and he stood by them under the tree as they ate.
Deuteronomy 14:21 (CJB)
21 “You are not to boil a young animal in its mother’s milk. I do not understand what is unclear about the above commandment. |
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Post by Questor on Jun 5, 2014 20:12:43 GMT -8
Actually, I had a good Shavuot this year. I spent Erev Shavuot in study, and before darkness I had some neighbors over for a BBQ. I was able to share with them that from sundown to sundown it would be Shavuot, and what that meant. One of them is Pentecostal, and predictably had no idea! (I just get a perverse thrill out of doing that to them ). Most of the day was spent resting, but from mid afternoon to sundown we had fellowship with Messianic believers from around the region! And sundown in this latitude is late- about 9:30- so it was a lot of fellowship! Between mouthfuls, that is ... something about becoming Jewish proselytes, even ex-Gentiles can cook much better! I ate a lot of cheesecake, starting with a salmon cheesecake (my kind of healthy eating, right there!). But mostly the fellowship was good. Dan C
As for me, I never got around to cheesecake...I would have had to make a special trip to the store for the Lactaid, so I will make up for it as soon as I can. I just enjoyed several good sermons on Erev Shavuaot, and then slept in, and was quiet during the day. So nice! |
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Post by Questor on Jun 6, 2014 10:32:12 GMT -8
Not at all. There is no commandment in Scripture forbidding anything in regard to using goats milk products with beef. Technically, there is no commandment in Scripture not to use milk products from a cow with beef either, so long as it is not a cow's milk being used to cook with her own calf, but I rarely cook with milk at all, so I keep dried goats milk around.
I don't seeth veal in cows milk, although the likelyhood of a slice of veal being nearly related to the cow I am getting milk from is highly unlikely these days, nor if I were preparing a young goat would I use any goats milk in preparing it. I could use a cows milk, if I wanted to...no commandment in the Scriptures say otherwise.
Adonai had no difficulty eating bread, curds, milk and roast meat together...why should I?
Genesis 18:1-8 (CJB)
1 Adonai appeared to Avraham by the oaks of Mamre as he sat at the entrance to the tent during the heat of the day.
2 He raised his eyes and looked, and there in front of him stood three men. On seeing them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, prostrated himself on the ground,
3 and said, “My lord, if I have found favor in your sight, please don’t leave your servant.
4 Please let me send for some water, so that you can wash your feet; then rest under the tree,
5 and I will bring a piece of bread. Now that you have come to your servant, refresh yourselves before going on.” “Very well,” they replied, “do what you have said.”
6 Avraham hurried into the tent to Sarah and said, “Quickly, three measures of the best flour! Knead it and make cakes.”
7 Avraham ran to the herd, took a good, tender calf and gave it to the servant, who hurried to prepare it.
8 Then he took curds, milk and the calf which he had prepared, and set it all before the men; and he stood by them under the tree as they ate.
Deuteronomy 14:21 (CJB)
21 “You are not to boil a young animal in its mother’s milk. [
I do not understand what is unclear about the above commandment.
There is nothing unclear about this statement, i'll say that. Is it not a little circumspect in its lack of corollary, in the rest of scripture. I would have you consider this have you ever smelt a goat, it's hide, cheese and cooking flesh? (Individually of course.) Looked into its eyes, and wondered why they stare at you without fear or anything resembling respect? Sheep don't, do they? They usually behave a little sheepishly.
As for a goats attitude towards me, no, never noticed them taking any note of me...unless I was feeding them, and then they were only interested in the food.
What's your point? |
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Post by Questor on Jun 6, 2014 13:02:06 GMT -8
Jesus was quite allegorical in his reference to goats was he not? If the lamb and the sheep are meant to be indicators of a certain temperament. Then what of the goat? I asked had you ever spent time with them? I wanted to know if you had noticed their temperament. Their lack of fear belligerance, etc is not something i want any part of. You do realise that even the Law has been tampered with? |
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Post by alon on Jun 7, 2014 18:39:58 GMT -8
Actually, I had a good Shavuot this year. I spent Erev Shavuot in study, and before darkness I had some neighbors over for a BBQ. I was able to share with them that from sundown to sundown it would be Shavuot, and what that meant. One of them is Pentecostal, and predictably had no idea! (I just get a perverse thrill out of doing that to them ). Most of the day was spent resting, but from mid afternoon to sundown we had fellowship with Messianic believers from around the region! And sundown in this latitude is late- about 9:30- so it was a lot of fellowship! Between mouthfuls, that is ... something about becoming Jewish proselytes, even ex-Gentiles can cook much better! I ate a lot of cheesecake, starting with a salmon cheesecake (my kind of healthy eating, right there!). But mostly the fellowship was good. Dan C  ; and worse, if I pretend I know, he'll ASK ...  "
Dan  C
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Post by alon on May 19, 2015 16:07:40 GMT -8
By the Hillel calendar (I understand Syn Chavurat HaMashiach figures it differently) Sat, 23 May 2015 is Erev Shavuot and Sun the 24th is Shavuot. Hebraically, that's 6 Sivan, 5775. Pentacost for the AoG folks where I'll be then. LOL, the highlight of my year almost is when I get to ask the Pentecostals if they know what day it is on Pentecost!
For those counting the Omer, it is seven weeks (49 days) past Pesach, plus one day- making 50 days. 50 is the number of transcendence in Judaism, indicating a return to God and the emergence of a new creation. The was given to the Hebrews on Shavuot after their miraculous emergence from Egypt. The Ruach HaChodesh was given on Shavuot as the Disciples emerged a renewed creation through the transforming power of God. And the B'rit Chadasha, the Renewed Covenant was attested to the same way as the Covenant at Sinai, with the Fire of the Spirit of God.
This is a day which should not be overlooked, as it is foundational to our faith as Meshiachim- twice over!
Dan C
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Post by alon on May 21, 2015 13:16:24 GMT -8
Shavuot is one of the shalosh regalim, so I try to go to my synagogues functions that day. We get together for food and fellowship, readings, etc. I'm not sure this year though. An elderly woman panicked In the Rite Aid parking lot, hit the gas instead of her brake and nailed my pickup (which was legally parked at the time). So it is in the shop and probably won't be done by the end of the day Friday. However Sunday we are having some people from the AoG (wife's church) over. Not the same, but we do what we can. Still looking at getting to synagogue though, as that is the main thing.
Dan
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Post by Elizabeth on May 22, 2015 8:10:35 GMT -8
Well, I hope she got herself together okay. It seems no one was hurt. That's good. Now, maybe she has some family members nearby who will jump in and be more helpful after this incident. I will study about it with my kids, and cook something with them. We can't do much with my lack of knowledge and no congregation, but they keep things fun.  |
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Post by alon on May 22, 2015 12:36:59 GMT -8
Well, I hope she got herself together okay. It seems no one was hurt. That's good. Now, maybe she has some family members nearby who will jump in and be more helpful after this incident.
Dan C |
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Post by alon on May 23, 2015 22:03:35 GMT -8
Well, I did make it to both shul and the Shavuot service; and had a wonderful time of fellowship and (what seems to be the true link between Judaism and Christianity)- food! It's customary to eat dairy on Shavuot, so there was plenty of cheesecake. That in itself is enough to convince me of Messianism!
One thing the Rabbi talked about is that God's moedim, His feasts and His appointed times, satisfy this longing in us to celebrate with like minded believers and to bring us closer to God. But if we rebel and don't keep His times, because we have this longing in our hearts we will make up our own traditions and our own holidays; enter the enemy.
Another point he made was, why do we count the Omer? Why count the 7 weeks/ 49 days between Pesach and Shavuot? It is to keep them linked in our minds. This is the time between the Hebrews being miraculously freed from Egyptian slavery and their being given the at Mt. Sinai. Without the one, you don't have the other. In fact, without the years of slavery that bonded them as a nation, there could have never been the unity as a people required to accept Gods covenant. So the two events are inseparable, and God wanted to make sure that they remained so in the minds of His people.
Leviticus 23:15 (ESV) “You shall count seven full weeks from the day after the Sabbath, from the day that you brought the sheaf of the wave offering."
So when I plan for next year, I'll try and keep these things in mind. Everything God did, He did for us. These things are given not as some mindless obligation, but to keep us mindful of His salvation history; what He's done for us, what our salvation cost both Him and other believers, who we are and Who we serve. And yes, what our obligations are. We are not to simply do rote lip-service to a god, but to serve others as our God did, and does, for us.
Buruch HaShem, and chag same'ach!
Dan C
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to the people Israel at Sinai. It's other name is Pentecost. It is a 
that such is an important day is often overlooked in the Messianic community (and utterly ignored in many Churches). Since the festival does not have a lot of detailed traditions attached to it, it requires little preparation and thus is easily forgotten.
). Most of the day was spent resting, but from mid afternoon to sundown we had fellowship with Messianic believers from around the region! And sundown in this latitude is late- about 9:30- so it was a lot of fellowship! Between mouthfuls, that is ... something about becoming Jewish proselytes, even ex-Gentiles can cook much better! I ate a lot of cheesecake, starting with a salmon cheesecake (my kind of healthy eating, right there!). But mostly the fellowship was good. 
; and worse, if I pretend I know, he'll ASK ... 
"
