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Post by zionlion on Sept 9, 2009 21:43:16 GMT -8
I was thinking how startling it is that one can be  observant only if one has come under the New Covenant. When Yeshua's Blood was placed on the post and lintel (the Cross) it signified the end of Elohim's acceptance of Temple sacrifice for atonement of sin. There is no atonement without the shedding of blood and, without the Temple and the priesthood, there is no opportunity for blood sacrifice; thus making it impossible for those not under the Covenant to keep the Law and be acceptable to Him. With Elohim supplying the ultimate sacrifice, Messiah, we are now free to keep and be pleasing to Him. The startling truth is this: One can only keep through Yeshua. I imagine that this is quite a dilemma for those rabbis who have a sincere desire to serve Elohim. They, of all people, know what the Tanach says about sin and redemption, yet, what can they say? Could this be why so many turn to Talmudic and other writings of man? Shalom  (There are no "other things". When I was thinking of a title for this, the Cowsills' song, "The Rain, The Park and Other Things" came into my small mind. Don't ask me why.) ;D |
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Post by lawrenceofisrael on Sept 9, 2009 23:40:40 GMT -8
As far as i know the talmud is supposed to keep you completely away from any possibility to break the by his strict rules. However we know that the is just the letter and thus it cannot provide righteousness for us. Yeshua provides atonement and thus we keep being cleansed. |
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Post by Mark on Sept 10, 2009 3:22:38 GMT -8
If atonement was by Temple sacrifice before Messiah came, how was Daniel and other righteous folk saved during the Babylonian captivity?
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Post by zionlion on Sept 10, 2009 9:05:55 GMT -8
Just like anyone else - by faith. They were precluded from observing the Temple-related aspects of the Law by Elohim himself.
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Post by lawrenceofisrael on Sept 10, 2009 11:08:09 GMT -8
I agree. The Almighty doesn´t expect you to do something you technically cannot fulfill. But by their faith (and Daniel may the Lord remember him knew about messiah) they who followed him were saved.
The Creator is just but he is also all knowing and merciful. His mercy endures forever.
May peace and blessings be upon us all.
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tonga
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Post by tonga on Sept 10, 2009 13:08:42 GMT -8
There is no atonement without the shedding of blood I should probably start a different thread, but it's easier to sidetrack this one...  I have never understood why Christians believe blood must be shed for atonement to occur... can you please explain? |
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Post by zionlion on Sept 10, 2009 14:24:50 GMT -8
Do you understand why Moses, Aaron, Miriam, Joshua, Isaiah, Jeremiah, David, etc. believed it? Just a thought... Shalom tonga |
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tonga
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Post by tonga on Sept 10, 2009 15:41:11 GMT -8
Do you understand why Moses, Aaron, Miriam, Joshua, Isaiah, Jeremiah, David, etc. believed it? I don't believe they did....how about some specific verses?  |
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Post by zionlion on Sept 10, 2009 18:00:31 GMT -8
Glad to: Leviticus Ch. 16, for example. But more importantly, you're Orthodox and you don't believe that blood atonement is part of ? I'm sorry, but I don't understand. |
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Post by yeshuafreak on Sept 11, 2009 12:22:35 GMT -8
most rabbinic jews deny the idea that blood is needed for atonement zionlion. that is why they pray instead of offereing sacrifices (at least, reform and some conservaties do). they believe that atonement can happen by acting out the mitzvot.
but i will be doing a study on the priesthood VERY soon. when i do i will post here why the writer of hebrews (james or barnabbas) states that "without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins." it is a very controversial verse and seems to be a misunderstanding of the preisthood's function on the writers part- here i explain what he probably meant textually, theologically, historically, etc.
EDIT BY JOHN: zionlion: you said a lot of thing that i dont think scripture supports. i will proclaim what i beleive scripture says later. now i dont have time.
shalom
NOTE: i edited because my comment seemed to convety a rudeness that i did not intend to be there. sorry zionlion. shalom to you.
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Post by zionlion on Sept 11, 2009 15:56:47 GMT -8
Yes, I understand about rabbinic Judaism. But I was asking tonga if she believed that required blood atonement. It doesn't really matter what I think or what you think or what the rabbi thinks; what matters is what HE thinks. Now, as for my slips (are they showing?), go ahead - take your best shot. Shalom |
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Post by zionlion on Sept 12, 2009 10:55:44 GMT -8
Shalom 'freak, I appreciate it, but I didn't take it that way at all. You're not a rude person (at least with me ). What I'm trying to get across here is how important it is for Jewish people to get into Tanach and judge what they're hearing from the rabbi by it; not vice-versa. We both know that blood atonement is a major component of , probably THE major component. We're not playing games here. Covenant relationship with Elohim is a matter of life and death. Correctly understanding is conducive to a better understanding of the New Covenant. Hope you're having a nice weekend. Shalom |
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Post by yeshuafreak on Sept 12, 2009 14:52:59 GMT -8
thank you so much.
and yes i do see what you are saying. however, i dont think that the idea of "blood atonement" is totally understood by christians and messianics, nor me for that matter. however, i wish to communicate in the best way possible what God has revealed to me about the blood atonement. i think that what you said above had a few theologically unsound ideas to me.
so i will post them later (as you can see i am a procrastinator/ a person with a busy schedule [especially with school starting and homework and all... biology and geometry are exhausting!])
you are an awesome person zionlion, and if proboard ever comes up with a "friends" function, i will definitely put you as one.
shalom- john
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Post by zionlion on Sept 12, 2009 20:33:52 GMT -8
Thanks 'freak, Appreciate the kind words. You're pretty awesome your own self. I took geometry in high school --- for about a week, then dropped it. Never did like Math. I'm always open to correction so I'll look forward to what you have to say about my theology. I would never claim to know everything about anything; especially the things of Elohim. Shalom in Yeshua  |
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observant only if one has come under the New Covenant. When Yeshua's Blood was placed on the post and lintel (the Cross) it signified the end of Elohim's acceptance of Temple sacrifice for atonement of sin. There is no atonement without the shedding of blood and, without the Temple and the priesthood, there is no opportunity for blood sacrifice; thus making it impossible for those not under the Covenant to keep the Law and be acceptable to Him. 
