Hebraic Roots of ???

[zionlion]

"Christianity"? As I continue to grow in learning to be observant,
I find myself being drawn more and more to that "Hebrew mindset"
that has been discussed on the board lately. I guess it's only natural, being that I worship the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; I'm a disciple of the Messiah of Israel; and, some day, I'll live in the new Jerusalem with other believers, Jew and gentile, who have met the terms of pardon.

The process has been gradual, beginning maybe 20 years ago as I started watching Zola Levitt, Neil and Jamie Lash and others. I began to see my "Christianity" through a Jewish lens and began to realize how much I'd missed growing up in my protestant, gentile religious experience.

As I've learned these truths, I understand now how important it is for gentile believers to have that "Hebrew mindset". I speak of the "mindset" in the spiritual sense. We are, in a sense, proselytes to Judaism, in the truest meaning of Judaism.

With that said, and not wanting to make this too long, I would hope that we would make a determined effort to distance ourselves from language and practices which would lead others astray. Our actions must coincide with what we know to be true: we are strange olive branches grafted into the true root, Israel.

I don't refer to myself as a Christian anymore. That word has too much baggage. I'm trying to make a conscious effort to convey the Hebraic nature of the Faith. I believe this is honoring to Elohim and Yeshua and is conducive to openness and understanding with the Chosen.

Thanks and Shalom

[Mark]

It's always important to remember where we came from; and often difficult not to hold that history in some level of contempt. This can be very dangerous: instead of focusing on our pursuit of truth and walking in intimacy with the Most High, we can be distracted by our aversion to what we have come to understand as wrong. When we are busy and focused upon getting away from what we perceive as error, we asre not committed and focused upon drawing toward what is right. Often the result is a throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

"Hebrew roots" is somewhat of a misnomer, in that, it gives the idea that our belief system has grown out from its incubus of Judaism and flowered into something that is altogether different. Messiah Yeshua lived and taught, all within the confines and contexts of traditional Judaism. Paul never abandoned or considered himself to have once stepped outside of the teachings of Judaism in his confidence that Yeshua is indeed Messiah. Even the Jewish leadership of Rome identified what we refer to as Christianity as a "sect" (among many) within the scope defineable as Judaism.

It is unfortunate that we have all grown to allow these terms to be culturally defined for us (though within our cultures there is no sense of agreement anyway). The Mormons, the Jehovahs Witness, the Catholic and Protestant all have no problem calling themselves Christian (though theologically they are as incompatible as can be). Equally, a Jew identifies himself and dismisses his fellows based upon ethnic, geographic, theological, marital or social grounds. I've come to take the rejection, "You're not really a Jew" with a grain of salt, knowing that there is someone else out there with a different definition who will condemn my accuser on their own standards. It gets to be a bit silly.

I think our focus upon or our aversion to symantics is a bit of a smoke screen. Live in obedience and let them call us what they will. I don't have any problem fellowshipping with Christians, understanding and accepting the differences there may be. I'm perfectly comfortable among Jews, recognizing that our hope is grounded in different places. The wonderful thing about our God is that He cannot be contained in yours or my understanding. We can learn so much from others who cannot grasp truth from our perspective because they are so full of the same truth from where they are standing. Yet, as we seek the same God in relationship, we find that we inevitably begin walking closer together, not pushing way.

[zionlion]

I see what you're saying, Mark. But words, like ideas, have consequences. My concern is that careless terminology may create an unnecessary stumbling block to those around us; particularly and most importantly those in the Jewish community.

Shalom

[claudeya]

This is an old post. And as I, being new here, can fully understand what zionlion is trying to convey. Our words in an effort to communicate are sometimes ineffective as we express what is spiritually taking place in us. Sometimes I feel that it is just between me and my relationship with El Ohim(sp) my God. But because I have not met anyone where I live that is having a similar experience it is wonderful to be able to read that zionlion is in close relationship to my own. My acceptance of Yeshua my Messiah started about twenty three years ago. I was born-raised Catholic. But never asked for Him to enter into my heart as my Savior until then. The process has been slow in my opinion. But until I felt He asked me to get rebaptized did my relationship with Him take off flying. I, too, have found myself being led away from Christianity per se'. I heard Larry Huch state that Jesus didn't come here to start Christianity. But to allow the gentiles to be graphed into Judiasm. This took root in me and the desires in my heart are to know as much about the herritage as well as the spiritual walk. Because we live in the end times, ever closer to His return, it is my belief that there will be more awakened to this grapheding.

In His Love

[zionlion]

Shalom claudeya,

I'm glad you understand what I'm saying.
When I speak of these things to my own family, much of it seems to go right over their heads.
They are still caught up in the same gentile religious traditions that I was before He opened my eyes.

It does seem that increasing numbers of people are beginning to understand these things, which is encouraging.

Welcome to the forum.

[lawrenceofisrael]

To Zionlion. I don´t refer to myself as a christian as well and i certainly don´t follow the sunday religion christianity. I am just a believer in the scripture and the creator and messiah that tries to practice what scripture said.
Once after i told a woman that i practise she said to me that we should accept our role as gentile-christians (or whatever it is called) but if we look at the scripture Yeshua said that he came only for the Israelites so we have to get grafted into that olive tree.

Good to see that you know the truth.

ve shalom ve rachem aleichem b´shem Yeshua

[zionlion]

Yes and Amen, lawrenceofisrael.

Thank you.

[alon]

Sept 8, 2009 4:29:18 GMT -8 Mark said:

It's always important to remember where we came from; and often difficult not to hold that history in some level of contempt. ... When we are busy and focused upon getting away from what we perceive as error, we asre not committed and focused upon drawing toward what is right. Often the result is a throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

"Hebrew roots" is somewhat of a misnomer, in that, it gives the idea that our belief system has grown out from its incubus of Judaism and flowered into something that is altogether different. Messiah Yeshua lived and taught, all within the confines and contexts of traditional Judaism. Paul never abandoned or considered himself to have once stepped outside of the teachings of Judaism in his confidence that Yeshua is indeed Messiah. Even the Jewish leadership of Rome identified what we refer to as Christianity as a "sect" (among many) within the scope defineable as Judaism.


... We can learn so much from others who cannot grasp truth from our perspective because they are so full of the same truth from where they are standing. Yet, as we seek the same God in relationship, we find that we inevitably begin walking closer together, not pushing way.

Here's your problem- modern "Christianity" has no "roots in Judaism." Its roots are absolutely and undeniably pagan. It grew out of 16th century Roman Catholicism and, with few exceptions quit questioning Catholic beliefs after Luther. It's as though Luther wrote the Christian Mishna, and everything since is just their Gemara; all commentary or outgrowth of his works.

Their holidays and customs are pagan, as is their form of worship- almost always being traced straight back to Rome. This is why there is so much latent (and often overt) anti-Semitism in churches today; how we can now demand that Jews be grafted onto a gentile tree if they want to be saved. This can only happen if we are a branch from a different tree, one whose roots are pagan and not Hebrew.

I still worship with Christians as well as work with them. However I've learned that I need more discernment when dealing with Christian sources, resources and people than with even the "Hebrew Roots" dung heap on the internet. For one thing, I grew up semi-brainwashed (I was a bit rebellious) in their doctrines, so they too often sound OK to me when they are not. For another they have an air of legitimacy about them, while much of the HR stuff I've had to dig through on the net is just plain crazy.

So yes, it is "always important to remember where we came from;" and just as important to hold those roots in some level of contempt. However you are correct that it is more important we stay "committed and focused upon drawing toward what is right."

Dan C