My Heartfelt Plea

[brotherblake]

My brothers and sisters, I'm not here to question your Jewishness. I'm here to affirm it.

You've probaly had a bad experience with Judaism, or never been exposed to real faith. I don't blame you for seeing the emptiness of Reform and Conservative Movements, because I see it too. Your Jewish soul seeks that connection to HaShem, and sometimes this world can misdirect that yearning. There are many who seek to prey upon this.

Please contact your local Orthodox rabbi, and take another look into the faith of forefathers. It pains me deep in my soul to know that you've been tricked into worshipping an idol, and following after false ways. Please, look into Traditional Judaism. Don't endanger your place in the world to come by worshipping the false gods of Christianity.

www.aish.org/, www.bejewish.org, www.messiahtruth.com, www.faithstrengthed.org, www.sellmeyourjewishsoul.com

Please take a look at these links, and at least visit a real Orthodox Shul for one shabbos. I guarantee you it will change you forever.

[Mark]

Actually, most people who join forum have no experience with traditional Judaism. Many have come to recognize the New Testament Scriptures as intrinsically Jewish and thus wish to learn more of their personal faith in Messiah on a level of consistency, understanding the context and breadth of what Messiah Yeshua and His followers were saying, as recorded in the New Testament.

I agree that there is much that can be learned from the traditional Jewish teachings; yet, the denial of Yeshua as Messiah is not one of them. In fact, once having come into a heart-felt relationship with Adonai through the Ruakh haKodesh, the faith in Messiah is unshakeable. This is something that only the truly Chasidic Jew can understand- those committed to truly living in a loving relationship with Adonai will see no value in tearing one away from a faith in Messiah, even if they disagree. They trust that the Ruakh haKodesh will lead them into all truth.

[brotherblake]

"Actually, most people who join forum have no experience with traditional Judaism."

And this is the problem. Without having experience with the real deal, one is suceptible to numerous lies that abound in the world.

"In fact, once having come into a heart-felt relationship with Adonai through the Ruakh haKodesh, the faith in Messiah is unshakeable."

What about the many Jews who have repented of idolatry and returned to ? It isn't the Ruach HaQodesh (which is the highest level of divine inspiration before prophethood, and highest attainable in this age - not a separate Deity as Christians blasphemously claim) but the spirit of idolatry that blinds one in this way.

"This is something that only the truly Chasidic Jew can understand- those committed to truly living in a loving relationship with Adonai will see no value in tearing one away from a faith in Messiah, even if they disagree. They trust that the Ruakh haKodesh will lead them into all truth."

You will find no Chosid who will approve of idolatry, or think that it is conducive to following G-d. In fact, it is a grave sin that will make someone lose their place in the world to come. Tell a Chosid about a Jew leaving Christianity/Messianic Churches, and they will say Baruch HaShem.

[azaliah]

שָׁלוֹם

I truly appreciate what appears to be a sincere desire, to encourage us in righteousness.

As for me, I don't even eat Kosher. To be honest it's kinda expensive, although I do like Hebrew National hot dogs but I would like them allot better if they had cheese inside them, but then again that would be mixing meat and milk in the same dish and therefore not be Kosher, so I would be right back where I started.

"You've probably had a bad experience with Judaism, or never been exposed to real faith."-Quote

Since we are jumping to conclusions here, permit me to make an assumption of my own. There is a Jewish trait passed down through the ages, of jealousy. Now this isn't your typical Lashon Hara here, this is some in depth truth, that maybe, just maybe, there is part of you deep inside your mind that covets us.

Now I realize merely admitting that would be a violation of the Mitzvot, so I don't expect you too, but I want to say friend if this is at all true, then I want to tell you, it's quite natural, very understandable, and totally fixable.

You see there is a special bond with the followers of Yeshua (who accept him as The Only God, part of the Triune Godhead, represented in the tetragrammaton "YHVH" (The Existing One, or "I am"). Perhaps, you wish also to have this bond but for whatever reason cannot. Perhaps you cannot because it would ruin your ideals, or your marriage, or your family, at any rate you resist acceptance. If you cannot accept Jesus as God, then you can only accept Him as a liar, and a false prophet (the way I see it, those are the only two options).

Nonetheless, God called you here for a reason. He loves you, and he wants you too believe in Him. Don't respond in anger, and borrowed piety, but rather consider the possibility that somewhere in your heart, there is a gentle knocking, a beckoning if you will, to accept a power higher than yourself.

Let's be honest for a moment here, you know your likely not to bring any believer in Christ, to doubt their faith. Isn't the real reason why you are here is because you partly doubt yours.

God made the Mitzvot so men could be pious, why not follow the final and greatest Mitzvah and accept Christ as your personal Savior?

You must by now know how to pray, then in the quietness of your prayer, call out to Jesus, recognize His true power to save you from your affliction, and come to Him as the sinner you are, and he will gladly accept you for all eternity.

Almost persuaded? If you post again and your not saved, I want you to remember this moment at the end of your life, when Azaliah gave you the offer of Salvation and you rejected it.

I bear your burden, I bear the burden of Elohim El-Shaddai as I am His Witness that in this moment, He calls to you.

אצליהו אליה

[tonga]

To be honest it's kinda expensive, although I do like Hebrew National hot dogs

It's not that expensive...and anyway, is anything we do to
follow G-d's mitzvot too expensive?

BTW, Hebrew National does not have a recognized hechsher,
so those of us who keep kosher don't eat them.
Not that I mind, I have always found hotdogs kinda gross....

There is a Jewish trait passed down through the ages, of jealousy.

Oh really? this is news to me....
no insult meant here, but only jealousy I sometimes see
is Messianics who seem to think if they are not Jewish, they
are somehow"less" than a Jew is. I don't understand that at
all, but it's not unusual to find Messianics rooting (pun intended
) through their family tree, looking for Jewish ancestors.
Must be a gentile trait, passed down through the ages...

If you cannot accept Jesus as God, then you can only accept Him as a liar, and a false prophet (the way I see it, those are the only two options).

Interesting comment....I do, not infrequently, find Messianics
who do not accept Jesus as G-d.
They claim nowhere in the NT does Jesus proclaim himself
to be G-d.

They believe he is messiah,
but not divine. Would you say the same to them?

Let's be honest for a moment here, you know your likely not to bring any believer in Christ, to doubt their faith.

Probably not, but I guess some people like to try anyway
No offense meant again, but most Messianics are not Jewish
and I think "counter-missionaries" who come to these forums
are pretty much wasting their time anyway..

[azaliah]

Shalom,

וַיֹּאמֶר קַנֹּא קִנֵּאתִי לַיהוָה אֱלֹהֵי צְבָאֹות
כִּֽי־עָזְבוּ בְרִֽיתְךָ בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל
אֶת־מִזְבְּחֹתֶיךָ הָרָסוּ וְאֶת־נְבִיאֶיךָ הָרְגוּ בֶחָרֶב
וָֽאִוָּתֵר אֲנִי לְבַדִּי וַיְבַקְשׁוּ אֶת־נַפְשִׁי לְקַחְתָּֽהּ׃

Thank you for your response.

You know, I am not one that desires calamity, but it's so rarely I get any response to the things I say (that God has called me to say) it's nice to know, that it actually touches someone.

Unless, people respond to The Word of God, their hearts can never change. The worst thing I deal with in my ministry, is a deaf ear. It would appear that was not the case with you.

Let's see what was important to you today.

1. An argument over hot dogs.

2. A "tit for tat" over jealousy. Claiming, the only Jealousy you see is "Messianic Jews". which makes sense that you don't see that, because if you did you would see, "Our God is a Jealous God".

3. A comment about your opinion about the frequency of Messianic Faith,

John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. "

John 14 :7 "If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. "

Count me in as a believer in Jesus as The Messiah, and Son of God, and the part of The Lord of Hosts.

4. An age old argument are Messianic's Jews or not? Brother Blake assumed we were, but your argument isn't with him now is it, Ma'am, it's with me.

I was born a Jew, I was born again a Christian.

Let's return back to the hot dog argument, the fact you find hot dogs gross and do not eat them is not considered to be a great deed in the Mitzvot, since you didn't want to eat it in the first place.

Nonetheless, might I just say to you, that if God was still with Israel (Orthodox Judaism), why is there still a Dome of The Rock on Temple Mount? You think maybe it might be God trying to tell you something?

Anyway, I very much appreciated your reactive response. I pray that you do find, true illumination through the Mitzvot and true holiness.

[tonga]

Sept 22, 2009 14:03:29 GMT -8 azaliah said:

Shalom,

וַיֹּאמֶר קַנֹּא קִנֵּאתִי לַיהוָה אֱלֹהֵי צְבָאֹות
כִּֽי־עָזְבוּ בְרִֽיתְךָ בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל
אֶת־מִזְבְּחֹתֶיךָ הָרָסוּ וְאֶת־נְבִיאֶיךָ הָרְגוּ בֶחָרֶב
וָֽאִוָּתֵר אֲנִי לְבַדִּי וַיְבַקְשׁוּ אֶת־נַפְשִׁי לְקַחְתָּֽהּ׃

Thank you for your response.

You know, I am not one that desires calamity, but it's so rarely I get any response to the things I say (that God has called me to say) it's nice to know, that it actually touches someone.

Unless, people respond to The Word of God, their hearts can never change. The worst thing I deal with in my ministry, is a deaf ear. It would appear that was not the case with you.

Let's see what was important to you today.

1. An argument over hot dogs.

2. A "tit for tat" over jealousy. Claiming, the only Jealousy you see is "Messianic Jews". which makes sense that you don't see that, because if you did you would see, "Our God is a Jealous God".

3. A comment about your opinion about the frequency of Messianic Faith,

John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. "

John 14 :7 "If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. "

Count me in as a believer in Jesus as The Messiah, and Son of God, and the part of The Lord of Hosts.

4. An age old argument are Messianic's Jews or not? Brother Blake assumed we were, but your argument isn't with him now is it, Ma'am, it's with me.

I was born a Jew, I was born again a Christian.

Let's return back to the hot dog argument, the fact you find hot dogs gross and do not eat them is not considered to be a great deed in the Mitzvot, since you didn't want to eat it in the first place.

Nonetheless, might I just say to you, that if God was still with Israel (Orthodox Judaism), why is there still a Dome of The Rock on Temple Mount? You think maybe it might be God trying to tell you something?

Anyway, I very much appreciated your reactive response. I pray that you do find, true illumination through the Mitzvot and true holiness.

You need to lighten up, guy....most of what I said was tongue
in cheek. That's what all the are for.

Have you seen me argue whether Messianic Jews are Jews?
No.
A Jew is always a Jew no matter what. If a Jew is born a Jew,
he is a Jew even if Christian/Buddhist/Messianic or anything
else.

What I was saying was that MOST Messianics are gentiles,
they were not born Jews.
That is a fact.
And MOST posters at Messianic forums are gentiles.
That is also a fact.

I fail to see how you read anything else into the comment, nor
why you have such a hostile attitude.

Perhaps you should ask my intent, and what I mean, rather
than making assumptions.

[azaliah]

Shalom,

Text-tone is anyone worst enemy.

My tone is typically straight forward. Nonetheless, I am aware that straight forward, can easily seem hostile.

I apologize if I offended you in any way, I assure you it was not my intention. Seeing as neither you nor I can see each others body language nor hear the tone of each others voice, it makes it quite difficult to gauge properly the severity of what someone is saying.

I attempted to respond as directly as I could, I except admonishment from you, if you feel I was in error in doing so.

I ask your forgiveness. Nonetheless, I do not apologize for the truth of what I said, just the way it came across.

Anyway, to answer your post.
"What I was saying was that MOST Messianics are gentiles,
they were not born Jews.
That is a fact.
And MOST posters at Messianic forums are gentiles.
That is also a fact."

I see no reason why you cannot be correct, I reckon I am as Gentile as Jews come. Mother was a Jew, this I have discovered, but all my life I was raised by Gentiles, I never even knew this information until I got in The Marine Corps and had the ability to use "greater means" to find my adoption records. I have no clue what my father was, wouldn't that make me a Mamzer? Is a Mamzer a Jew, really it depends on how you view the Mitzvot.

Anyway, with the internet people always are called out as posers, this is extremely common. Not that I am saying you are saying so .

"why you have such a hostile attitude."

There was a game we used to play with my brother, I would try and see if I could make him really mad, then I would say "just kidding" after word, and watch him get embarrassed for getting mad.

I responded directly, it would be an "assumption" to assume I responded with hostility.

Here's a good example, the Mitzvot say's that homosexuality is clearly forbidden in the (Lev. 18:22), and that it is "in the strongest possible terms, as abhorrent" (Rabbi Rich).

If I were to tell a Gay man what he was doing was "abhorrent" would I become hostile?

I was merely stating the plain and simple truth, I meant no offense by it.

[tonga]

I apologize if I offended you in any way, I assure you it was not my intention. Seeing as neither you nor I can see each others body language nor hear the tone of each others voice, it makes it quite difficult to gauge properly the severity of what someone is saying.

I attempted to respond as directly as I could, I except admonishment from you, if you feel I was in error in doing so.

. Mother was a Jew, this I have discovered, but all my life I was raised by Gentiles

Then you are as much as a Jew as the most pious Jew in the
world. Once a Jew, always a Jew, no matter what.

father was, wouldn't that make me a Mamzer?

No, you are not a mamzer. A mamzer is created by a forbidden
sexual union, ie incest, or a married woman having a child of
a man other than her husband.

Anyway, with the internet people always are called out as posers, this is extremely common. Not that I am saying you are saying so .

I hope not; that would offend me
I made it very clear in my intro here that I was a non-Messianic
Jew, and that I was not a counter missionary. I would hope
that indicates that I am not a "poser".

Here's a good example, the Mitzvot say's that homosexuality is clearly forbidden in the (Lev. 18:22), and that it is "in the strongest possible terms, as abhorrent" (Rabbi Rich).

If I were to tell a Gay man what he was doing was "abhorrent" would I become hostile?

It all depends in how you say it. One can make the point
that homosexuality is forbidden in a kind and loving way.
Or one can do it in a scornful, hurtful way.
Hopefully someone would choose the latter way, because
anything else is not productive.

[Mark]

I appreciate you both speaking plainly and letting each other know how you feel. English can be a terrible language in that the same phrase may be interpretted a number of ways based upon upbringing/culture, context and vocal inflection (none of which are typically present in this written format). It is a good thing let each other know where your personal boundaries are and to seek clarification. It may be better, however, to use personal messages to seek clarification on somethingyou may feel has been directed specifically to you.

I appreciate you both and the sincerity with you express your views.

Mark

[tonga]

It may be better, however, to use personal messages to seek clarification on somethingyou may feel has been directed specifically to you.


Mark

I don't think it should be an issue if the air gets cleared a little...
it's also a good learning tool for others on the forum.

Now that we have a better understanding of each other,
we'll be just fine.

[azaliah]

[zionlion]

Jul 15, 2009 13:56:09 GMT -8 brotherblake said:

"Actually, most people who join forum have no experience with traditional Judaism."

And this is the problem. Without having experience with the real deal, one is suceptible to numerous lies that abound in the world.

"In fact, once having come into a heart-felt relationship with Adonai through the Ruakh haKodesh, the faith in Messiah is unshakeable."

What about the many Jews who have repented of idolatry and returned to ? It isn't the Ruach HaQodesh (which is the highest level of divine inspiration before prophethood, and highest attainable in this age - not a separate Deity as Christians blasphemously claim) but the spirit of idolatry that blinds one in this way.

"This is something that only the truly Chasidic Jew can understand- those committed to truly living in a loving relationship with Adonai will see no value in tearing one away from a faith in Messiah, even if they disagree. They trust that the Ruakh haKodesh will lead them into all truth."

You will find no Chosid who will approve of idolatry, or think that it is conducive to following G-d. In fact, it is a grave sin that will make someone lose their place in the world to come. Tell a Chosid about a Jew leaving Christianity/Messianic Churches, and they will say Baruch HaShem.

Even though brotherblake no longer comes here, I'd like to comment on his post.

He makes the same mistake that, sadly, many Jewish people make. He doesn't think of in the context of covenant. If a Jewish person (or any other person) "returned to ", he/she would be the first to do so. No one can keep . That's why Elohim provided a way of atonement. Otherwise, we'd all be cut off.

Because he has rejected the New Covenant, he has condemned himself. He has no means of atonement. There is no Temple. There is no priesthood. If there is another method of atonement described in the Tanach, I haven't found it. But I do find the mention of a new covenant. A new covenant with Israel. A covenant which provides both atonement and the power of Elohim through the Ruach haKodesh to live by .

Elohim has provided a way. Please, don't turn away.

Shalom

[ninjaaron]

Jul 15, 2009 13:56:09 GMT -8 brotherblake said:

... the Ruach HaQodesh (which is the highest level of divine inspiration before prophethood, and highest attainable in this age - not a separate Deity as Christians blasphemously claim)...

No Christian claims that. The traditional formulation is that the persons of the trinity are of one essence manifest in three substances. We use the term "Holy Spirit" (or Ruach haQadesh, if you like) to designate the same as is meant by Ruach Ad-nai in the Tanak. It's not another god. It's a way of describing the presence of G-d working actively in the life of the individual and the ordering of the universe.

Just because someone told you we believe in a separate deity doesn't make it so.

[ninjaaron]

Sept 22, 2009 16:21:02 GMT -8 Mark said:

English can be a terrible language in that the same phrase may be interpretted a number of ways based upon upbringing/culture, context and vocal inflection (none of which are typically present in this written format).

Oh, come on now. Any language is like that. I love English. It has just about the most nuance verb system for communicating the aspect of action of any living language I know. Besides...
אם קורים הרבה בתנ"ך, אי אפשר לומר שזה יותר טוב בעברית

No consensus on the meaning for three thousand years, and still going strong.