dave
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Posts: 34
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Post by dave on Jul 8, 2009 13:15:32 GMT -8
www.ou.org/yerushalayim/17betammuz/How many people observe the non-biblical holidays? I assume that a fairly large amount of people celebrate Chanukah, but what about the others? Dave
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dave
New Member
Posts: 34
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Post by dave on Jul 11, 2009 1:19:39 GMT -8
Hello.....anyone out there?
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Post by Mark on Jul 11, 2009 5:30:05 GMT -8
Hi Dave,
The short answer is no. For the past several months there have been very few posters on the forum. This is the reason that I chose now to change everything around. There are anywhere from 40 to 80 visitors per day; but few people have much to say. It tends to run in cycles. If you would like to help increase the activity on the forum, you can share it with others who you come into contact with who have interest in or curiosity about the Messianic faith. I'm getting close to done on the updating and should begin writing and sharing again soon.
What has been largely, lost, forgotten, ignored or disdained is that the New Testament faith is a Jewish faith, considered until well into the second Century a sect within the greater definition of Judaism. The covenant promises which rest as the building stones of relationship with Adonai are covenant promises to the people of Israel. Paul invites all us to come in and fully invest ourselves into the "commonwealth of Israel".
What I have found is that everything about Jewish culture and tradition is tailored toward intimacy with the Most High God- often pointing to and describing the Person and Purpose of the Messiah in a fuller detail than we could ever before realize.
What can be overwhelming is to suddenly plunge oneself into this culture without consideration of what value is there for us- my suggestion is to take things slowly, not because their value may be questionable but simply because you learn and appreciate the value of chocolate cake so little when you swallow the pieces whole.
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dave
New Member
Posts: 34
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Post by dave on Jul 12, 2009 2:29:35 GMT -8
Thank you for your response. I'm not really running into too many people that would be interested at the moment, as I'm still not home yet. I would have been posting more myself, but I couldn't log in for a while.
I am noticing that the more that I learn and begin to understand the Jewish faith, the more complex the picture becomes. It amazes me at how complex and organized and INTENTIONAL everything is. Down to the very last detail of feasts that were ordained a few thousand years ago that paint a picture of the Messiah to come. I'm just trying to get an unbiased, unhellenized, untainted grasp of the God of my fathers.
Also, nice example :-)
Dave
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Post by tzadiq on Jul 20, 2009 14:24:59 GMT -8
I question this observance being in the Moedim Section at all.. Please show me the scripture that supports this.
Thank you
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Post by Mark on Jul 20, 2009 14:33:34 GMT -8
Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
(Romans 12:15-16 KJV)
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lou
Junior Member
married 15 yrs
Posts: 89 
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Post by lou on Sept 7, 2015 6:40:36 GMT -8
www.ou.org/yerushalayim/17betammuz/How many people observe the non-biblical holidays? I assume that a fairly large amount of people celebrate Chanukah, but what about the others? Dave [br Chanukah is G-ds work, why then woukd it not be biblical. Tammuz is a pagan name of the sun gods son n our month tammuz was named after him n i think we shoukd not keep this. |
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Post by alon on Sept 7, 2015 12:00:01 GMT -8
www.ou.org/yerushalayim/17betammuz/How many people observe the non-biblical holidays? I assume that a fairly large amount of people celebrate Chanukah, but what about the others? Dave [br Chanukah is G-ds work, why then woukd it not be biblical. Tammuz is a pagan name of the sun gods son n our month tammuz was named after him n i think we shoukd not keep this.
Tzom Tammuz is a Jewish minor fast day which commemorates the breaching of the walls of Jerusalem prior to destruction of the Second Temple. It is the 17th of Tammuz, and begins a three-week mourning period culminating in Tisha B'Av. Minor fasts begin at dawn and end at nightfall.
If a person wishes to observe this in unity with the Jewish faith I don't think it would controvert scripture.
Concerning your point about the name being pagan: I've often thought about just numbering the months instead of using the pagan names popularly assigned to them. However this would cause a lot of confusion (not the least in my own already confused mind), and so I still use the names.
I agree we should eschew any practices directly tied to these deities whether found in Judaism (some Orthodox practices are very questionable) or in Christianity. A good example from our own tradition:
Dan C
Edit: there are four months which were named in the Bible:
The first month (Nissan): Aviv (EXO 13:4, 23:15, 34:18, DEU 16:1)
The second month (Iyar): Ziv (1KI 6:1, 6:37)
The seventh month (Tishrei): Eitanim (1KI 8:2)
The eighth month (Cheshvan): Bul (1KI 6:38)
However, for whatever reason, the Hebrews renamed them with pagan names. |
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lou
Junior Member
married 15 yrs
Posts: 89
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Post by lou on Sept 7, 2015 18:55:32 GMT -8
Ty Dan, for the always detailed explanation. Im wellversed in our pagan roots n why we do what we do, traditionally speaking. My heart hurts to do what is tainted by idol worship. Interesting on the 4 months mentioned. N your thoughts towards numbering months. This was done by the writers of  . I will be doung this to see how it works out. Do u think the book of Maccabees should be considered divinely written by God and paid closer attention to? |
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Post by alon on Sept 7, 2015 21:57:29 GMT -8
Not to hijack this thread, but 1st and 2nd Maccabees are ok. They are where the Roman Catholics get their renowned faith from as I understand it. (I got this talking to an ex Catholic priest). I think there is much to be learned from the Deuterocanonical books. However I don't think they should be given the weight of or included in scripture. Most were left out because of serious doctrinal errors. The Catholics placed the Apocrypha in their Bible in order to substantiate their pagan practices. So I am very careful when I go to any Apocryphal text for a reference.
Dan C
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Post by jimmie on Sept 8, 2015 7:41:28 GMT -8
In addition to the months listed by alon the following month names can also be found in the Bible:
The first month: Nisan (Neh 2:1, Est 3:7)
The third month: Sivan (Est. 8:9)
The ninth month: Chislea (Zech. 7:1, Neh 1.1)
The tenth month: Tebeth (Est. 2:16)
The eleventh month: Sebat (Zech. 1:7)
The twelfth month: Adar (Est. 8:12, 9:1, 15, 17, 18, 21, Ezra 6:15)
The twelfth month: Elul (Neh 6:15)
In most cases when the name of a month is used it is also numbered. Throughout the Bible months are primarily numbered, see the flood story and I Chor 27:2-15 for examples.
An interesting side note: Four of our modern day months are also numbered. The 9th through 12th months:
September: From Latin meaning Seventh month (roughly Tishri the seventh month on the Jewish calendar)
October: From Latin meaning eighth month (roughly Heshvan the eighth month on the Jewish calendar)
November: From Latin meaning ninth month (roughly Kislev the ninth month on the Jewish calendar)
December: From Latin meaning tenth month (roughly Tevet the tenth month on the Jewish calendar)
If we want to follow scripture we should number the months and use names for months only when conversing with someone who may not be familiar with the numbering of months laid out by scripture.
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Post by alon on Sept 8, 2015 14:44:37 GMT -8
In addition to the months listed by alon the following month names can also be found in the Bible: The first month: Nisan (Neh 2:1, Est 3:7) The third month: (called Adar Beit in leap years) (Est. 8:9) The ninth month: Chislea (Zech. 7:1, Neh 1.1) The tenth month: Tebeth (Est. 2:16) The eleventh month: Sebat (Zech. 1:7) The twelfth month: Adar (Est. 8:12, 9:1, 15, 17, 18, 21, Ezra 6:15) The twelfth month: Elul (Neh 6:15) In most cases when the name of a month is used it is also numbered. Throughout the Bible months are primarily numbered, see the flood story and I Chor 27:2-15 for examples. An interesting side note: Four of our modern day months are also numbered. The 9th through 12th months: September: From Latin meaning Seventh month (roughly Tishri the seventh month on the Jewish calendar) October: From Latin meaning eighth month (roughly Heshvan the eighth month on the Jewish calendar) November: From Latin meaning ninth month (roughly Kislev the ninth month on the Jewish calendar) December: From Latin meaning tenth month (roughly Tevet the tenth month on the Jewish calendar) If we want to follow scripture we should number the months and use names for months only when conversing with someone who may not be familiar with the numbering of months laid out by scripture.
You are both correct that God simply numbered the months. The months which were named before the Babylonian exile (my earlier post) appear to be the months the feasts were in.
Dan C |
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Post by jimmie on Sept 10, 2015 13:34:39 GMT -8
What feast is in the eighth month? Back to the original questions. www.ou.org/yerushalayim/17betammuz/How many people observe the non-biblical holidays? I assume that a fairly large amount of people celebrate Chanukah, but what about the others? Dave The same basic question was asked in Zech. 3:3 … Should I weep in the fifth month, separating myself, as I have done these so many years? God’s answer: Zech. 3:5 … When ye fasted and mourned in the fifth and seventh month, even those seventy years, did ye at all fast unto me, even me. 6 And when ye did eat, and when ye did drink, did not ye eat for yourselves, and drink for yourselves? Compare with Romans 14:6,7 : "HE that regardeth the day, regardeth it UNTO THE LORD; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord HE doth not regard it. HE that EATETH, eateth to the Lord, for HE giveth The Almighty thanks; and HE that EATETH NOT, to the Lord HE eateth not, and giveth The Almighty thanks. For none of US liveth to HIMSELF, and no man dieth to HIMSELF." It appears to me that the keeping of the Jewish feasts and fasts is optional (done at one’s personal discretion). I personally keep only the feasts and fasts laid out in scripture (which are not optional). I don’t condemn those who do keep the man-made Jewish feasts and fasts as long as they keep them unto the LORD. Of course, proclaiming a pagan feast is unto the LORD is not included in this liberty. Just ask Aaron. |
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Post by alon on Sept 14, 2015 15:12:46 GMT -8
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- there are 70 faces to 
) C
