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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on May 3, 2004 14:32:41 GMT -8
Here is the Haftara reading for this week named “Emor/Say”: Ezekiel 44:15-31 May you behold wonderful things out of our Heavenly Father's  this week!... "Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy ." - Psalms 119:18 Also, please share with us what Adonai has shown you. Shalom chaverim, Reuel |
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on May 8, 2004 0:16:24 GMT -8
"But the priests, the Levites, the sons of Zadok, who kept the charge of My sanctuary when the sons of Israel went astray from Me, they shall come near to Me to minister to Me. And they shall stand before Me to bring near to Me the fat and the blood, declares Adonai YHVH." - Ezekiel 44:15
In the passage above it states that it is the sons of Zadok that are to proceed as the High Priesthood. But, what I find interesting is that in 152 BCE, Jonathan the Maccabean aquired the office of High Priest. It has been stated that in the early years his succesor, Simeon, aquired the office of the High Priest (Cohen HaGodel), and it was transferred perminantly from the Zadokites to the Hasmoneans (Maccabees). I wonder how Yeshua viewed this priesthood during His time, and I wonder if this had anything to do with it's destruction?
"And they shall teach My people between the holy and the common, and between the unclean and the clean, to make them known.
And in a dispute, they shall stand to judge, they shall judge it by My judgments. And they shall observe My laws and My statutes in My appointed feasts, and they shall sanctify My sabbaths." Ezekiel 44:23-24
Not only was this the Levitical priesthood's job, but we also as a holy priesthood are called to teach all things that Yeshua has commanded us to teach...
"Then having gone, disciple all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things, whatever I commanded you. And, behold, I am with you all the days until the completion of the age. Amen." - Matthew 28:19-20
And, what did he command us...
"So let your light shine before men, so that they may see your good works, and may glorify your Father in Heaven.
Do not think that I came to annul the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to annul, but to fulfill.
Truly I say to you, Until the heaven and the earth pass away, in no way shall one iota or one point pass away from the Law until all comes to pass.
Therefore, whoever relaxes one of these commandments, the least, and shall teach men so, he shall be called least in the kingdom of Heaven. But whoever does and teaches them, this one shall be called great in the kingdom of Heaven." - Matthew 5:16-19
We are to teach G-d's people the difference "between the holy and the common, and between the unclean and the clean, to make them known". His set-apart priesthood is to..."observe My laws and My statutes in My appointed feasts, and they shall sanctify My sabbaths." If a minister of G'd is not doing this...he is not serving the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Shalom B'Shem Yeshua,
Reuel
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Post by DoveMinistriesUK on May 8, 2004 12:59:55 GMT -8
"But the priests, the Levites, the sons of Zadok, who kept the charge of My sanctuary when the sons of Israel went astray from Me, they shall come near to Me to minister to Me. And they shall stand before Me to bring near to Me the fat and the blood, declares Adonai YHVH." - Ezekiel 44:15 In the passage above it states that it is the sons of Zadok that are to proceed as the High Priesthood. But, what I find interesting is that in 152 BCE, Jonathan the Maccabean aquired the office of High Priest. It has been stated that in the early years his succesor, Simeon, aquired the office of the High Priest (Cohen HaGodel), and it was transferred perminantly from the Zadokites to the Hasmoneans (Maccabees). I wonder how Yeshua viewed this priesthood during His time, and I wonder if this had anything to do with it's destruction? "And they shall teach My people between the holy and the common, and between the unclean and the clean, to make them known.
And in a dispute, they shall stand to judge, they shall judge it by My judgments. And they shall observe My laws and My statutes in My appointed feasts, and they shall sanctify My sabbaths." Ezekiel 44:23-24 Not only was this the Levitical priesthood's job, but we also as a holy priesthood are called to teach all things that Yeshua has commanded us to teach... "Then having gone, disciple all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things, whatever I commanded you. And, behold, I am with you all the days until the completion of the age. Amen." - Matthew 28:19-20 And, what did he command us... "So let your light shine before men, so that they may see your good works, and may glorify your Father in Heaven.
Do not think that I came to annul the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to annul, but to fulfill.
Truly I say to you, Until the heaven and the earth pass away, in no way shall one iota or one point pass away from the Law until all comes to pass.
Therefore, whoever relaxes one of these commandments, the least, and shall teach men so, he shall be called least in the kingdom of Heaven. But whoever does and teaches them, this one shall be called great in the kingdom of Heaven." - Matthew 5:16-19 We are to teach G-d's people the difference "between the holy and the common, and between the unclean and the clean, to make them known". His set-apart priesthood is to..."observe My laws and My statutes in My appointed feasts, and they shall sanctify My sabbaths." If a minister of G'd is not doing this...he is not serving the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Shalom B'Shem Yeshua, Reuel Re the Priesthood: The Hasmodean dynasty's great mistake was the same as the great mistake that is happening today in The Land - as the Roman presence grew, among the Isra'elites they wavered and invited the enemy to govern The Land in 37BC in an attempt to mollify and work with their enemy. Herod, of course, used the Hasmodean's to do his bidding for him, which is why the Qumran sect set up their alternative Temple, and why Yochanan anointed Yeshua in the Yarden. He wasn't baptised because Yochanan's 'baptism' was for repentance - of what had Yeshua to repent, or did he allow a lie to be acted out? He was anointed by Yochanan, the Qumran High Priest, as a Priest in the Order of Malki-Tzedek. That is why his gown could not be torn at his trial (Lev 10:6 by implication) or he would have died as the Cohen Hagadol, Kayafa died. |
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on May 8, 2004 21:03:23 GMT -8
Shalom brother, Have you ever read the book, "The Messianic Seal of the Jerusalem Church" dealing with this subject? I don't know if John (Yochanan) the Baptist was a Qumran High Priest as this would be conjecture, and not founded on any clear scripture, or evidence. Also, any Priesthood operating in a place that YHVH had not set-apart for His Temple would be just as illegitimate as the Hasmodean priesthood. To sacrifice an animal in any other location other than The Temple is a violation. And, Yeshua did honor the Temple as His Father's. It is an interesting subject to say the least. But, there is too much that is unknown to come to any firm conclusions. Do you have any other information to share that would shed light on this matter? Shalom chaver, Reuel |
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Post by DoveMinistriesUK on May 9, 2004 4:34:58 GMT -8
Shalom brother, Have you ever read the book, "The Messianic Seal of the Jerusalem Church" dealing with this subject? I don't know if John (Yochanan) the Baptist was a Qumran High Priest as this would be conjecture, and not founded on any clear scripture, or evidence. Also, any Priesthood operating in a place that YHVH had not set-apart for His Temple would be just as illegitimate as the Hasmodean priesthood. To sacrifice an animal in any other location other than The Temple is a violation. And, Yeshua did honor the Temple as His Father's. It is an interesting subject to say the least. But, there is too much that is unknown to come to any firm conclusions. Do you have any other information to share that would shed light on this matter? Shalom chaver, Reuel Shalom! I have read the book - it is a good read. Whilst we can say that what I said was conjecture it is at least informed conjecture, rather than believing that Yeshua sinned in the water and received a baptism of repentance, knowing that he was sinless which is not just conjecture but is actually very dodgy theology and doctrine! In particular you might like to recall Yochanan's comments to Yeshua - Yochanan expected Yeshua to annoint him (as High Priest?), instead Yeshua accepted Yochanan's annointing. It makes more sense, along with lots of other issues to make this a more likely reasoning (you do not say what your understanding is of this passage - you are just unsure of mine!!! Did not Yeshua, himself, say that Yochanan was as Eliyahu - one who was a great man sent G-d for a purpose. Yochanan was born supernaturally to be a forerunner, an announcer, of Yeshua HaMashiach, to be the one to point out this man who was both Son of Man and Son of G-d but who walked this earth to show us that we could live as G_d wanted us to - he proved that it could be done, not because he was partly G-d but because he was fully man - he accepted all that man lives by in order to show us the way to obedience. G-d always used very special people to annoint his prophets and kings and Yeshua was annointed by a very special man who was brought into the world by G-d for this very special purpose (once he had done it he has his head chopped off - his role had been fulfilled, Yeshua was the great High Priest now, not Yochanan or Kayafa). I believe Yochanan's great purpose was to annoint the man Yeshua to his rightful role - to annoint Yeshua as High Priest and King - surely, that's why Yeshua's charge sheet read: ...King of Jews... a title he never claimed ownership of and a role which he didn't want. When the title was written on the board with the rest of his charges it formed an acronym for YHVH and the Pharisees got a bit hot under the collar as Yeshua's charge sheet showed him to be G-d. Why, if he had not claimed it - where did it come from? From G-d who laid hands on him via the dove of the Ruach Hakodesh and the voice that was heard affirming Yeshua's annointing - would G-d have affirmed a lie - that Yeshua needed a baptism of repentance. He paid the price for our sin on the stake - not in the waters of the Yarden! Yochanan was very influential and Herod was scared of him (Josephus tells us) because the people did whatever Yochanan said and, presumably, he might have raised the people up against Herod in connection with Herod's marital situation. He was a well respected and well known figure - much more so than just as a Rabbi, to the extent that he got Herod's attention! Re the Temple - in reality it didn't exist in those days and the Qumram folk restored the Temple (without the sacrificial system, obviously) ready for the time they could re-take the physical Temple and transfer everything there and resume the sacrifices and Temple worship. The events of AD70, of course. denied them this opportunity because Yeshua's words about every stone being overturned had to come true and the Temple was utterly destroyed by fire. As you have doubts about this account so too, I believe, I might have doubts that G-d could not ordain a Temple-in-waiting that was pure to him. We do not know for sure but that doesn't exclude the possibility! There is much in Scripture that we know now that our parents didn't know - but we only have the same book! As Yochanan also said, if everything Yeshua said and did were to be written down there would not be room to hold it in the whole world! That is not to say that there is anymore self-revelation by G-d (there isn't), but we are given more insights into the truth contained in the Word, as the Ruach HaKodesh allows us to see these links and ties that make sense of Biblical pages and events. I'll join you in the queue in heaven and we can ask Yeshua what he thinks (we'll probably both be wrong)! |
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on May 9, 2004 9:22:21 GMT -8
DoveMinistriesUK, Good points!  I am not saying at all that Yeshua was baptised for the remission of sins. This was obviously a priestly mikva. At any rate, if the Temple during the time was totally illegitimate why did Yeshua recognize it as His Father's house... "And Yeshua went into the temple of G'd, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves. Matthew 21:12-13 If this was not indeed the true Temple...why all the fuss? This last passage names this temple as The Temple of Elohim (YHVH). And, in the following passage Yeshua recognizes the authority of both the Temple, and the altar therein.... "Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein." - Matthew 23:16-21 We see all throughout the Gospels that Yeshua visited the Temple often. If it was not legitimate, why would He bother?? If it was an abomination, why was He teaching daily there (Mar 14:49)? And, if it was not legitimate why would he command the man whom He healed to go offer a sacrifice there?... "And Yeshua saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them." - Matthew 8:4 It is also interesting to see that John the Baptist's father was a Levitical Cohen serving in The Temple (Herod's). And, the following passage attests that he was -blameless-, and righteous before Elohim walking in all the commandments, and ordinances... "There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. And they were both righteous before G'd, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of YHVH blameless. And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years. And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before G'd in the order of his course, According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of YHVH. And the whole multitude of the people were praying without at the time of incense. And there appeared unto him an angel of YHVH standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. - Luke 1:5-13 We also see that Yeshua's parents considered The Temple to be the true Temple of Elohim as they offered the commanded sacrifices for Him there... "And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Yeshua, to do for him after the custom of the law.." - Luke 2:27 Yeshua's disciples also considered this to be the true Temple even after His departure.... "And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy: And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing G'd. Amen." - Luke 24:51-53 In the book of Acts we see that Sha'ul (Paul) recongnized the authority of this Temple as he both partook in sacrifices there, and was purified there according to ... "Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them." - Act 21:26 There was something definitely wrong with the priesthood during that time, but the authority structure seemed to remain intact, and was recognized by both Yeshua, and His disciples. Although, I do believe that G'd had enough of it's corruption which led to it's destruction. Thank you brother far this conversation as I have enjoyed it. B'Shem Yeshua, Reuel |
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Post by DoveMinistriesUK on May 9, 2004 13:37:50 GMT -8
DoveMinistriesUK, Good points! I am not saying at all that Yeshua was baptised for the remission of sins. This was obviously a priestly mikva. At any rate, if the Temple during the time was totally illegitimate why did Yeshua recognize it as His Father's house... "And Yeshua went into the temple of G'd, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves. Matthew 21:12-13 If this was not indeed the true Temple...why all the fuss? This last passage names this temple as The Temple of Elohim (YHVH). And, in the following passage Yeshua recognizes the authority of both the Temple, and the altar therein.... "Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein." - Matthew 23:16-21 We see all throughout the Gospels that Yeshua visited the Temple often. If it was not legitimate, why would He bother?? If it was an abomination, why was He teaching daily there (Mar 14:49)? And, if it was not legitimate why would he command the man whom He healed to go offer a sacrifice there?... "And Yeshua saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them." - Matthew 8:4 It is also interesting to see that John the Baptist's father was a Levitical Cohen serving in The Temple (Herod's). And, the following passage attests that he was -blameless-, and righteous before Elohim walking in all the commandments, and ordinances... "There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. And they were both righteous before G'd, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of YHVH blameless. And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years. And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before G'd in the order of his course, According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of YHVH. And the whole multitude of the people were praying without at the time of incense. And there appeared unto him an angel of YHVH standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. - Luke 1:5-13 We also see that Yeshua's parents considered The Temple to be the true Temple of Elohim as they offered the commanded sacrifices for Him there... "And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Yeshua, to do for him after the custom of the law.." - Luke 2:27 Yeshua's disciples also considered this to be the true Temple even after His departure.... "And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy: And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing G'd. Amen." - Luke 24:51-53 In the book of Acts we see that Sha'ul (Paul) recongnized the authority of this Temple as he both partook in sacrifices there, and was purified there according to ... "Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them." - Act 21:26 There was something definitely wrong with the priesthood during that time, but the authority structure seemed to remain intact, and was recognized by both Yeshua, and His disciples. Although, I do believe that G'd had enough of it's corruption which led to it's destruction. Thank you brother far this conversation as I have enjoyed it. B'Shem Yeshua, Reuel Shalom again! Yes, you are right - the Temple was the place where Yeshua preached and taught, and so did others of his Talidim but... whilst the Temple was G-d's chosen place of abode (built to his command hundreds of years earlier - Herod just the cheek to alter G-d's house as Herod saw fit), it doesn't mean that everything was rosy. Look how Yeshua condemned the leaders - exalted the Temple, but not the Temple staff, by and large. One has to dinstinguish between the Temple ordained by G-d and the people who were in it - a few of whom followed the L-rd and were kosher as you point out and as we know from other places, but that doesn't mean that everyone was or that the direction of Temple life was always in line with G-d's heart. Did G-d call the leaders to murder his son, rob the poor, abandon the widow and place impossibly heavy yokes on the backs of the people, of course not! But their actions do not make the physical Temple any the less in G-d's eyes. Our bodies are the Temple of the living God, but what about your sin, and the fact that still G-d wants to save it, so much so that he sent the same son to redeem both! The Qumran sect were waiting for the physical Temple to be cleansed by G-d as he had done over 150 years earlier, then they would have re-dedicated it, as had happened previously, and returned it to its proper use, manned by proper priests, with the sacrificial system up and running again. One needs to read what the writer wrote, check it with what we know (experience) of G-d and with the rest of Scripture and then look hard to see why the writer wrote it - what was the he trying to convey to his hearers, at that time, not today. When we can work that out with some confidence we shall see the application for today's fallen world. Blessings in Yeshua, |
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on May 9, 2004 14:03:28 GMT -8
Amen DoveministriesUK . I see your point in regards to the Qumran sect, and the waiting of the rededication of the Temple. Although, it is doubtful that this was G-d's purpose seeing that this intention never came to pass. Although, Yeshua did condemn some of the leadership's hypocrisy, he did support their authority during the time... "Then spake Yeshua to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not." - Matthew 23:1-3 Could you explain further the following comment in regards to this conversation... Shalom achi, Reuel |
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Post by DoveMinistriesUK on May 10, 2004 9:52:59 GMT -8
Re Yeshua and the Temple first: David did not kill Sh'aul, although he could have done easily, because Sh'aul, as bad as he became, was still the person that G_d placed in that position. Yeshua respected some of the leaders and encouraged others to, to degree, as did Sh'aul because they were occupied their position only under sufferance of G_d. After all, G_d has a history of using non-believers, and even animals, to bring about his purposes, why not a few corrupt leaders in Jerusalem?
Re the additional text you asked about. I cut and pasted, as I thought, The Finest Principle for Understanding Difficult Passages of Scripture but not all of it has appeared. It should say, at the head of it:
When we say one one thing based on Biblical knowledge and a question is raised about what we say there are two possible answers: a) G_d is wrong or b) we have got it wrong.
To solve this situation do the following:
(and this bit you have already!)
Sorry for not cutting and pasting it properly in my rush to get to bed!! Lesson learned, but the Principle stands.
Shalom aleichem!
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on May 10, 2004 10:58:44 GMT -8
DoveMinistriesUK,
Well said. G'd is right, and what we don't understand in the scriptures doesn't mean that there is a contradiction. It simply means that we need to do our homework.
Baruch Haba B'Shem Yeshua HaMashiach!
Reuel
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Post by alon on May 9, 2017 8:34:24 GMT -8
Bumping this week's haftara.
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this week!...
