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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jun 6, 2004 16:45:24 GMT -8
Here is the Haftarah portion of the Torah Reading Schedule for this week: Shelach : “Send Thou”<br> Haftarah : Joshua 2:1-24 May the following be our prayer... "Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy  ." - Psalms 119:18 Also, please share with us what Adonai has shown you, or ask any questions that you may have. Shalom chaverim (friends), Reuel |
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jun 10, 2004 14:57:41 GMT -8
As we read the account of Rahab, and the Israeli spies, we see that they stand as a witness against the unbelieving people of Israel as we see in this week's accompanying reading (Numbers 13). We also see that they stand as a witness against us when we fail to trust in Adonai even though we have seen His wonders, and power in our lives... "And she said unto the men, I know that YHVH hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you. For we have heard how YHVH dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that were on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed. And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for YHVH your G'd, he is G'd in heaven above, and in earth beneath." - Joshua 2:9-11 Even Rahab the harlot had more faith than the men of Israel whom were previously afraid to take the land that G'd had given them. And to her, the events that she had knowledge of were second hand (not directly experienced by her)!... "For we have heard how YHVH dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that were on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed. "This is why we see her listed with the faithful in Hebrews 11:31. This testifies of Yeshua's words when He said that harlots, and tax collectors go into the Kingdom of Heaven before some (Matthew 21:31). On a seperate note, another interesting part of this chapter is that these righteous men of Israel went not only into the house of a Gentile, but that of a harlot! This seems to not be consistant with what much of rabbinic Judaism teaches, and taught in the time of Yeshua... "And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but G'd hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean."Acts 10:28 It was not against our Heavenly Father's /Law to do this. But, it was against rabbinic halacha of the time. Many Christians unfortunatley fail to see the second half of this passage found in Acts 10:28 when they try to use it to teach that Messiah, and His disciples taught contrary to in regards to eating kosher diets (Lev.11). For the second half of this passage is the key to Kefa's (Peter's) vision. B'shem Yeshua, Reuel |
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Post by Kallah on Jun 12, 2004 17:31:09 GMT -8
Shalom, Reuel! Enjoyed reading this thread. Very insightful. As I finished reading, something triggered my memory to point you made regarding Rahab being a harlot. Reference to Rahab in Brit Chadasha (Hebrews 11:31) still referred to Rahab "the harlot". I believe the reference may not be as negative as sometimes presented. I came across once, the word "zonah" in Hebrew either a "harlot," or, reference to also mean, an "innkeeper". Rahab may have been an innkeeper in Jericho. Being that words can have more than one meaning...maybe because of the emphasis of her "occupation" and the fact that she later on married an Israelite, she may have been an "innkeeper" or if it had been "harlot' would not have continued to be a "harlot"(in the negative sense, ie"prostitute" if the meaning of "zonah" was meant in negative form. Also, that the two spies went to her house specifically...as would anyone,in a stange city or town, would go to a hotel or inn to lodge(so to speak). 1) The two spies sent by Joshua from Shittim came into her house and lodged there (Joshua 2:1). 2) Rahab came to marry an Israelite, Salmon, and by means of that marriage became one of the physical ancestors of Yeshua, through Melech David. 3) "....and Salmon the father of Boaz by Rahab, and Boaz the father of Obed by Ruth, and Obed the father of Jesse, and Jesse the father of David the king." (Matthew 1:5-6 RSV) What I get from this...and especially keeping in mind where Rahab's house was located. Everyone in Jericho knew (her), her house. When spies were sought out, it made me think why specifically did the men of Jericho head to Rahab's? She must've been well known, and not necessarily for ill repute. Also, Rahab is not ignorant of who these men are and what they represent. She has heard about the G-d of the Israelites, and she herself has fear of Him. She knows enough to help the two Israelites, instead of handing them over to men of Jericho. In this I see... innkeeper gives shelter to who is sent by El-him...the scarlet rope, serving as a "sign" that spared her life and that of her family; is as sure a sign of the blood of Y-shua that would cause angel of the L-rd to "passover" and deliver us from death. The house of Rahab and all dwelling inside were spared from G-d's judgement over Jericho, and she and her family recieved life. That is what I got from it. b'ahava Y-shua, Kallah  ;D  |
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Post by el Gusano on Jun 12, 2004 17:54:12 GMT -8
Kallah,
I have seen many such instances such as this, in which a negative connotation is put onto a word, when it's not necessarily so. Tradition prevents anyone from even thinking otherwise. Even when you show the word in Hebrew and Greek (from the LXX) meaning something different than the English, the response is, "That's not what I was taught" or "that's not what the KJV says".
Another example is the "sinner" in the house of Simon.
There are even modern examples such as in Tagalog, where the word for housecoat and sleeper are the same except for the accent. (I think that's the correct word, if memory serves.)
I also had a friend who was a translator in the Navy and he told a VIP to urinate on the dotted line because the accent was wrong.
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Post by Kallah on Jun 13, 2004 3:24:05 GMT -8
El Gusano: Shalom. I appreciate your commentary regarding my post.  So, quite possibly the connotation in this case; the reference to "zonah"may not be negative. Salamat po. (Thank you.) BTW: You mentioned Tagalog...are you Filipino? b'ahava Y-shua, Kallah |
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jun 13, 2004 13:25:11 GMT -8
Kallah, and El Gusano, Thank you for replying to (haftarah) reading discussion thread You both have extremely good, and valid points. Although, I don't neccesarily see "inkeeper" in the Hebrew found in this text. The word in question is: zanah {zaw-naw'}    Here are the possible renderings for this word: Also, this begs the question, why hasn't Rabbinic Judaism translated it this way (as they have had a few thousand years to mull it over)? Here is a different scenario...Rahab was both a harlot, and in "inkeeper", and this was accepted in this pagan culture (as it is in several countries today). Therefore, she was well known. Her loyalties were not to her country. And, recently hearing of the G'd of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, she began to fear Him. From this new faith she acted in righteousness, and hid the spies. Any thoughts? Reuel |
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Post by Kallah on Jun 13, 2004 18:24:11 GMT -8
Reuel: B"H Isn't it awesome to discuss ? I find both observations thought provoking. ;D Now, speaking of Rachav....In Hebrew, the name Rachav means "wide" or "broad". So, a positive attribute, is she has a broad heart - she likes to be a hostess and help people, and she's giving person. The drawback to this type of personality (kind of co-dependent)is that it may make one fall into immorality because their good-heartedness makes it difficult for them to say "no". Our sages say that, "....besides Rachav's giving, open nature, she was physically exquisite and that she channeled these qualities in the wrong direction and fell easily into her profession..... As a woman, she was very exclusive in her business, and we are told that many important people, including kings, were involved with her." Okay, so, I'm looking at it (now) from hypothetical observation, but, I'm keeping in mind both lines of thought: Pinchas and Calev cross the Jordan into Yisrael, and stop for the night in the city of Yerico, at the house of an "innkeeper" named Rachav. The Hebrew word for innkeeper is "zonah", which comes from the word "mazon" (food). Rachav is referred to in the Book of Yehoshua as "isha zonah", which can be translated as "a female innkeeper, who provided food for people" (one who provided lodging).However, the word "zonah" also means prostitute. So, perhaps Rachav was a prostitute, involved with many people, and she supported herself by running a brothel disguised as an inn??? ( quite possibly). Also, perhaps the reason why Pinchas and Calev chose Rachav's "inn", was they thought it a strategic advantage that Rachav's business connected her to the leaders of the land, and in that wise they'd have the opportunity of extracting information from Rachav. Now, both observational views prove strong points of discussion. Personally, why I leaned toward the "innkeeper" hypothesis; because, in the Brit Chadasha (Hebrews 11:31) Rachav is referred as "the zonah". Which is curious to me if it is to say she was still a "prostitute', when after the destruction of Yericho, she later married Salmon, she would not have remained so. So, that if the connotation was negative, the Brit Chadasha (or the translators) would not have referred to "Rachav the zonah", but, just Rachav, or perhaps "Rachav who had been zonah", or "Rachav wife of Salmon". On the otherhand, if it is to mean she was an "innkeeper", she would have (possibly) remained so after the destruction of Yericho,being it her occupation, and perhaps continued in line of hospitality work after marriage. But, this is just a hypothetical observation. Another thing I noticed; Scripture eludes from indicating the presence of other individuals being present when the Yisraelite spies seek lodging at Rachav's. Whether they were spotted from the outside, or from within Rachav's dwelling, word somehow did get out,and it is how the leaders of the land came to know they were in the city. I've really enjoyed this thread. The present discussion topic, open-ended. However different the observations, it concludes to one means, El-him's purpose is fulfilled. We find those He sends out, to be sheltered and protected, by someone who would be deemed an enemy. We find H-shem's undying mercy, extended to the one that sheltered and protected the lives of Pinchas and Calev; and so, Rachav and her family are saved, and spared from H-shem's fatal judgement on Yerico. How greatly the L-rd rewarded Rachav; she came to be of the ancestral lineage to Y-shua ben David. B"H  b'ahava Y-shua, Kallah FOOTNOTES: International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (1) (rachabh, "broad"; in Josephus, Ant, V, i, 2, 7, Rhachab; Hebrews 11:31 and James 2:25, Rhaab): A zonah, that is either a "harlot," or, according to some, an "innkeeper" in Jericho; the Septuagint porne, "harlot"). |
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jun 13, 2004 18:52:00 GMT -8
It has been a pleasure. Shalom chaver, Reuel |
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Post by el Gusano on Jun 13, 2004 22:19:15 GMT -8
The word itself was sometimes used as an idiom for "innkeeper" because from their exposed situation were not the most correct in morals. It's much like the Greek word for "sinner" was often used to indicate "Gentile". (Unfortunately, most today take "sinner" to mean prostitute, but considering everything surrounding the situation and the fact that the Jews commonly used "sinner" to denote Gentile, she was probably just a Gentile.) Some idioms such as that won't be found in Strong's or most other dictionaries or concordances. Also, in some extra-scriptural references, "to play the harlot" meant to be unfaithful other than sexually and even to "be angry", but that does not seem to be the case any place in Scripture.
It's almost always used either in reference to women or nations or a group of people in a religious sense. There is little to tie this woman to the position of innkeeper based on the word itself, but the usage may be a different story. However, it does not really matter whether she was a heathen innkeeper or a prostitute because at some point she had been converted and was faithful and is a good lesson for us all.
No, I'm not filipino. I'm a 6'9" white guy with a goatee and very Irish looking. It always surprises people when I greet them with, "magandang hapon", though. I had someone who I was very close to who was a Filipina, though and I picked up a lot of the language. I still remember some of it, but not a lot.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jun 13, 2004 22:38:18 GMT -8
Amen brother Sorry, I had to laugh. Erev tov (good night), Reuel |
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Post by Kallah on Jun 14, 2004 3:22:36 GMT -8
El Gusano, Reuel: Baruch H-shem! Baruch H-shem! It has been a wonderful discussion...a blessing to reason together in ha ahava El-him. b'ahava Yeshua, Kallah PS El Gusano...hey, you could still have been an Irish-Filipino with a gotee. Nothing wrong with that. PSS A pleasure to dialog (electronically) with you both. B"H |
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Post by alon on May 7, 2016 19:39:46 GMT -8
The word itself was sometimes used as an idiom for "innkeeper" because from their exposed situation were not the most correct in morals. It's much like the Greek word for "sinner" was often used to indicate "Gentile". (Unfortunately, most today take "sinner" to mean prostitute, but considering everything surrounding the situation and the fact that the Jews commonly used "sinner" to denote Gentile, she was probably just a Gentile.) Some idioms such as that won't be found in Strong's or most other dictionaries or concordances. Also, in some extra-scriptural references, "to play the harlot" meant to be unfaithful other than sexually and even to "be angry", but that does not seem to be the case any place in Scripture. It's almost always used either in reference to women or nations or a group of people in a religious sense. There is little to tie this woman to the position of innkeeper based on the word itself, but the usage may be a different story. However, it does not really matter whether she was a heathen innkeeper or a prostitute because at some point she had been converted and was faithful and is a good lesson for us all. No, I'm not filipino. I'm a 6'9" white guy with a goatee and very Irish looking. It always surprises people when I greet them with, "magandang hapon", though. I had someone who I was very close to who was a Filipina, though and I picked up a lot of the language. I still remember some of it, but not a lot.
This is an old thread, but a very good discussion. And the above post hits pretty close to the mark. I remember a d'rash Rav S did in which he posited Rachav was a Madame. The word can mean both inn-keeper and harlot, as was said in several posts here. And Hebrew words can mean different things depending on context. However all meanings carry the connotations of the letters making up that word. Inns in the ancient world were bawdy dens of drunkenness and lechery, and every innkeeper had a few prostitutes working to enhance his (in this case her) income. It is for this reason Jews did not normally stay at inns when traveling. Who knows why these spies chose Rachav's inn to stay at, other than the obvious that Elohim led them there. Regardless, there is a lot of food for thought in this short thread.
Dan C
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Post by alon on Jun 15, 2017 12:21:47 GMT -8
Joshua 2:1-24 is our haftara this week. So I'm giving this a bump.
Dan C
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." - Psalms 119:18
;D 
So, quite possibly the connotation in this case; the reference to "zonah"may not be negative.
