Deu. 18 : 20 Penalty of the presumptuous prophet

[el Gusano]

I was listening to someone speak, and he said something that made me think (he did not say the thing that I discovered; he just made me think enough to look it up). I looked up the verse, and it's interesting. The word translated in most translations as "shall die" is qal, perfect; casual action of the root, treated as a completed action.

Any thoughts?

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

El Gusano,

That's interesting. The word "shall die" is "muwth" in Hebrew (Strong's 04191)


Meaning:

1) to die, kill, have one executed

a) (Qal)

1) to die

2) to die (as penalty), be put to death

3) to die, perish (of a nation)

4) to die prematurely (by neglect of wise moral conduct)

b) (Polel) to kill, put to death, dispatch

c) (Hiphil) to kill, put to death

d) (Hophal)

1) to be killed, be put to death

a) to die prematurely

I may be misunderstanding you, but where did you get:

"qal, perfect; casual action of the root, treated as a completed action." ?

Shalom,

Zealot

[el Gusano]

The "Tense, Voice, Mood" book by Larry Pierce. It lists the tense, voice and mood of every word in the Bible. The stem is qal, which is defined as:

Qal is the most frequently used verb pattern. It expresses the “simple” or “casual” action of the root in the active voice.

Examples:

he sat, he ate, he went, he said, he rose, he bought

This form accounts for 66.7% of the verbs parsed.

The mood is perfect. Perfect is defined as:

The Perfect expresses a completed action.

1) In reference to time, such an action may be:

1a) one just completed from the standpoint of the present “I have come” to tell you the news

1b) one completed in the more or less distant past in the beginning God “created”<br>
“I was (once) young” and “I have (now) grown old” but “I have not seen” a righteous man forsaken

1c) one already completed from the point of view of another past act God saw everything that “he had made“<br>
1d) one completed from the point of view of another action yet future

I will draw for thy camels also until “they have done” drinking

2) The perfect is often used where the present is employed in English.

2a) in the case of general truths or actions of frequent occurrence -- truths or actions which have been often

experienced or observed
the grass “withereth”<br>the sparrow “findeth” a house

2b) an action or attitude of the past may be continued into the present

“I stretch out” my hands to thee
“thou never forsakest” those who seek thee

2c) the perfect of intransitive verbs is used where English uses the present; The perfect in Hebrew in such a case emphasises a condition which has come into “complete existence” and realisation

“I know” thou wilt be king
“I hate” all workers of iniquity

2d) Sometimes in Hebrew, future events are conceived so vividly and so realistically that they are regarded as having virtually taken place and are described by the perfect.

2d1) in promises, threats and language of contracts
the field “give I” thee
and if not, “I will take it”<br>
2d2) prophetic language
my people “is gone into captivity”<br>(i.e. shall assuredly go)

That's not the most interesting thing that I discovered, but I want to be sure it's accurate info before I post it.

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

El Gusano,

That is very interesting. In this light would say that in regards to "shall die" in the passage in question, such a person is as "good as dead" in the perfect sense?

Shalom,

Reuel

[el Gusano]

I have only a minute or two, but is there any place that specifically calls for stoning in this situation? I haven't done a search on it, so I'm not certain.

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

I have not found anything specific in regards to stoning. But, a false prophet is to be cutoff (killed), and no doubt stoning was one of the methods. Although, I did find one connection...

"A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:27

"And when they had gone through the isle unto Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name was Barjesus" Acts 13:6

So, if a prophet is also a wizard/sorceror (which is probably the case), and if they are getting their prophecies from a familiar spirit and not from YHVH, than such an individual would indeed fall under that condemnation of Leviticus 20:27.

Shalom,

Reuel

[el Gusano]

Where does it say that he is to be cut off? I'm interested in the specifics. BTW, Deuteronomy 18:20 is specifically speaking of someone prophesying presumptuously.

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

"But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die." Deuteronomy 18:20

You stated...

BTW, Deuteronomy 18:20 is specifically speaking of someone prophesying presumptuously.

Yes, and one whom does this is a false prophet.

You stated...

Where does it say that he is to be cut off?

The term "cut off" is the Hebrew word karath {kaw-rath'} Strongs 3772:

1) to cut, cut off, cut down, cut off a body part, cut out, eliminate, kill, cut a covenant

And, this is another term that is used to describe being put to death (killed).

Shalom,

Zealot

[el Gusano]

Yes, but where specifically does it say that?

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

It doesn't.

Shalom,

Reuel

[el Gusano]

In reading non-Scriptural secular works, when used this way, it seems to be a regular idiom for treating someone as if they are dead or non-existant, not physically killing them. You were an outcast that could not buy or sell and were basically driven out.

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Yes, but when read in context it clearly means that one was to be put to death. All one needs to do is take a look at the commandments that were unto death if broken, and take a look at the phrase "cut-off" with in that context.

Shalom,

Reuel

[el Gusano]

I do agree that it appears that way, but the reason that I started studying it is because of this idiom. I've been busy on my gospels study, but if I'm not mistaken, every other capital offense is instructed specifically on the who is to die and the method. I'm not positive about this, though.

[Mark]

If we compare this passage back to Deuteronomy 13:10, the method of dealing with the false prophet is to stone him with stones.