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Post by john75 on Oct 20, 2015 5:47:16 GMT -8
I simply can't understand from reading Paul's letters (or at least the letters traditionally attributed to him) can be excepted as scripture. Paul attacks circumcision constantly! He even goes as far as wishing those who insisted on gentile circumcision castrate themselves!!! Gal 5:12As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves! Also, you say Gentiles should be circumcised and follow the whole of the  (as they should) , while Paul said the opposite. Gal2: 3But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: I just can't reconcile Paul with the gospel of Yehoshua. I appreciate any input. I cant either, and i think galatians 5 is a stark example of why! Yehoshua came to fulfil the by upholding it, he didnt come to dismiss it. Though time and time again throughout the new testament he pleads the case for lawlessness, claiming to be doing so in the name of the God of Israel, AND THEN.... Then he tells Israel he is taking their ministry and giving it to the Gentiles. come on, something is seriously amiss here, whatever translation you read from. |
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Post by alon on Oct 20, 2015 8:31:54 GMT -8
To answer this question I need to take you back to Acts 15; Act 15:1 And certain men coming down from Judea were teaching the brothers, "If you are not circumcised in the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved." (Emphasis mine) The main question that the Jerusalem Council was "How are gentiles to be saved" not how should they behave. Some believers from Judea said that in order for the Gentiles to be saved they must be circumcised. This meant more than just the physical removal of the foreskin. It meant a formal "conversion" to Judaism, up to and including embracing the entire Oral Law (probably the law Peter had in mind when he referred to "a yoke... which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear). We know of course that they were mistaken. Peter told the Council the story of the Roman Cornelius and his household of uncircumcised Gentiles had received the Holy Spirit without formally converting to Judaism. This is the problem Paul/Saul was dealing with in Galatians. He is not saying to not obey . He is saying that being converted to Judaism will not save you. Only grace can do that. but if we are adhering to , surely we are for circumcision. I mean circumcision was a part of , as much as animal sacrifice in Jerusalem. i long for my uncircumcision to be over, it is a thing that troubles me daily. I can not abide agitators that preach in the Lords name against the practice. And the writings attributed to paul feature heavily in this group.
Dan C |
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Post by alon on Oct 20, 2015 8:45:05 GMT -8
I simply can't understand from reading Paul's letters (or at least the letters traditionally attributed to him) can be excepted as scripture. Paul attacks circumcision constantly! He even goes as far as wishing those who insisted on gentile circumcision castrate themselves!!! Gal 5:12As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves! Also, you say Gentiles should be circumcised and follow the whole of the (as they should) , while Paul said the opposite. Gal2: 3But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: I just can't reconcile Paul with the gospel of Yehoshua. I appreciate any input. I cant either, and i think galatians 5 is a stark example of why! Yehoshua came to fulfil the by upholding it, he didnt come to dismiss it. Though time and time again throughout the new testament he pleads the case for lawlessness, claiming to be doing so in the name of the God of Israel, AND THEN.... Then he tells Israel he is taking their ministry and giving it to the Gentiles. come on, something is seriously amiss here, whatever translation you read from.
Part of what we do here is try to understand what is said in scripture and what was meant by the authors; NOT what Christianity says it meant. In order to do that, if you have a question or serious concern you should give actual examples instead of just making blanket accusations.
2 Peter 3:16 (ESV) as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
This is what Christian churches have done so they would not have to be obedient. It is their teachings which have muddied the waters for so many people and which have taught that Paul was anti , anti-circumcision, anti-Semitic ... . He was none of these things, which the entire B'rit Chadashah attests to.
Dan C
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(as they should) , while Paul said the opposite.
