Oral Torah

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

I've noticed people who have been faced with a dilemna regarding there personal life and that seem to create there own oral to justify breaking the .

I agree. I have seen this many times. No doubt this would be unlawful halachah. Halachah should only serve to further , and make it honorable (Isai.42:21). If it fails to do this...it is in error. Yeshua did not have a problem with halachah that furthered what is stated in Isai.42:21. He only took acception to halachah (men's commandments) that over-ride the commandments of G'd (Mark 7:9).

I don't know, but I gather that they justify this because there is an oral that explains when and how some of the commandments should be applied.

Yes. But, this is the point of halachah (oral ) as we see Yeshua HaMashiach demonstrating in Mark 2:26-27...

"How he went into the house of G'd in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him? And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath"

We see here Yeshua addressing an issue in regards to Melech David and the Cohenim wich centers on issues dealing with halachah (how certain commandments are to be applied and dealt with in certain situations). He follows up with the famous dictate not only well known in Christianity, but first well known in Judaism which deals with the application of mitzvot (a.k.a halachah)....

"the Sabbath was given over to man and not man to the Sabbath" - Mekhilta, Ki Tisa:5

I believe that Mashiach has given us all of the guidelines we need to determine valid halachah in the lives of Messianic believers. I believe if the traditional way of developing halachah (Three observant community (synagouge) leaders (respected, seasoned & tested) came together we could very well develop halachah that would edify the community, magnify The , and make it honourable.

Shalom achi,

Reuel

[azumah]

I don't have a problem with halachah in general. I just have a problem with it, as well as anything else, if it teaches to break . Unfortunately, some of it does.

For example, Abodah Zarah 22a-22b teaches that gentiles prefer bestiality. This, in my opinion, is contrary to what teaches.

For more interesting entries in the talmud, visit this website. Please note that the talmud is very big, stacking several feet high. There are many edifying entries in it. Unfortunately, just like some Christian talmuds, many are not.

www.stormfront.org/jewish/talmud.html

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

For more interesting entries in the talmud, visit this website. Please note that the talmud is very big, stacking several feet high. There are many edifying entries in it. Unfortunately, just like some Christian talmuds, many are not.

Amen my brother,

Reuel

[The 614th Mitzvot]

I read this website and most of what it quotes is taken out of context.

Medicine - One must understand Talmudic medicine is still first century and is as technological as first century, it worked on most people well.

Goyim - During this time, disgusting sexual acts were common among goyim because they lacked the proper teachings

Food - back to the medicine, unclean things may be eaten if they are thought to help a person get better.

- in some cases Oral is more important than when we speak of laws only, because if we study the outside of the law, we can never break the inside and eventually study the inside in safety.

Jesus - Jesus was a very common name any time period after Yeshua. One can simply read Josephus to understand how much we can confuse which Jesus is which.

I find that Talmud disagrees with the New Testament a bit, but not so much as to say it is evil. It is the product of lost souls who are incredibly wise. I take it in stride with my readings of Aristotle or Copernicus. It is advice, nothing more.

Midrash on the other hand I think is usually very valid, such as the story of Avraham HaAvinu being thrown out of Ur.
Your opinions.

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

I find that Talmud disagrees with the New Testament a bit, but not so much as to say it is evil. It is the product of lost souls who are incredibly wise. I take it in stride with my readings of Aristotle or Copernicus. It is advice, nothing more.

I agree brother. I think that you have a balanced view of the Talmud. So, when are we going to start working on our Messianic Talmud?

Yom tov b'Yeshua HaMashiach,

Reuel

[The 614th Mitzvot]

I have been praying and thinking about it. I have a Jews for Jesus office near my school so I'll talk to someon in there. Perhaps our forums could be Messianic Gemara?

[Mark]

I think what a lot of folks forget is that Yeshua and the disciples were Jews living in a Jewish society. It is particularly noteable that in the gospels of Matthew and Luke when Yeshua did something that was unique in His surrounding environment (for instance: blessing the bread before breaking it, rabbinical tradition was to bless the bread after you have eaten and are full (based on Lev. 19:23)).

This being the case, we can likely stand confident that unless Matthew or Luke expressed otherwise, Yeshua lived according to the Laws that dictated that society, according to Talmud or Oral . This, to me, means that unless the Talmud or Oral is in violation of Mosaic , it is appropriate for us to follow.

I take exception to the idea that Yeshua built a hedge around (doing so would be in violation of Deut. 4:2). Instead, He expressed the clear and true boundaries of itself. Most of His sermon in Matthew 5 and 6 can be taken directly out of Leviticus 19.

By the way, Christians have their Oral and Talmud. Ask any Church for its Constitution and By-Laws. Consider where they place the authority of writers such as John Calvin or Martin Luther. Man is the same and we will all skirt that fine line of Deuteronomy 4:2 because we naturally think we are smarter than others (if not smarter than God, Himself). The important thing to remember is that humility of spirit and dedication to Adonai and His . If we are not servants then we are rebels.

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Good points brother. In regards to the blessing before eating...it was and is traditional in Judaism to bless before and after while recognizing that the commandment focuses on the latter.

Shalom,

Reuel