Testimonies

[Mark]

I'm looking for historical evidence that defines what is translated "the testimonies" in Scriptures such as Isaiah 8:20 and Psalm 119:152. We believe (hypothesize) that the testimonies (the edyos) refer to Oral (to some extent) as in early practices of Judaism like the festival traditions. I find a lot of folks who agree with this; but not from what would be commonly be accepted as authoritative sources like early church historians or early (pre-Middle Ages) rabbinical scholars. If there is anyone who can help me find somr resources I'd greatly appreciate it. This is for use in debate against anti-Judaic Christian thinking- that biblical Christian observance can be practiced outside of a Judaic context.

Thanks,

Mark

[Chizuk Emunah]

Let me see what I can dig up.

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Could this just be the Hebraic communication style that we see so often as two words and/or thoughts are used to describe the same thing? In this case we have "" and "Testimony"....

"Moshe said to Aharon, "Take a pot, and put an omer-full of manna in it, and lay it up before YHVH, to be kept throughout your generations."
As YHVH commanded Moshe, so Aharon laid it up before the Testimony, to be kept."
- Sh'mot (Exo.) 16:33-34

Is not "the Testimony" in the above passage ?

Any thoughts?

Reuel

[Mark]

Specifically, in Exodus, we see "The Testimony" as representing the Ark of the Covenant. This is clearly stated in Exodus 25:16.

Yet it still leaves some wiggle room for how we are to define "the testimonies" (plural). Are they simply the physical manifestations of : the Ark, the Alter, the Tabernacle itself? This is difficult to accept since Adonai knew that these physical symbols would be destroyed. "Your testimonies have I taken as a heritage forever: for they are the rejoicing of my heart." (Psalm 119:111).

We also find that the testimonies represent conduct on our part- not a physical, symbolic representation. The testimonies are to be "kept". "He spoke unto them in the cloudy pillar: they kept His testimonies, and the ordinance that He gave them." (Psalm 99:7)

While the Testimonies are part of , they are consistently spoken of as a specific element of , distinguishable from the Statutes, the Ordinances, and the Commandments. is not just Statutes, Ordinances and Commandments. Probably half of it is a catalog of history: stories of the creation and redemption of man. We "keep" these stories, we remember them, teach and celebrate them, in our celebration of the Holy Days as mitzvot. Thus my conclusion is that the Testimonies that we keep are the celebrations of the Holy Days (specifically) as passed to us through Oral (the "How To" of celebrating the feasts.

[Chizuk Emunah]

I did some research, and here's what I came up with:

Isa 8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

The word used here is t'udah, which means precept or law. It's Strong's number 8584 (if you want to look it up).

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Again the word used here is t'udah.



Exo 16:34 As the L-RD commanded, Moses, so Aaron laid it up before the Testimony, to be kept.

Now we see a difference in meaning. The word used here is aydut, which can mean witness, precept, or law. Since the Ark is what is being referred to here, the obvious interpretation would be witness. This is Strong's number 5715



Psa 119:152 Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them forever.

Here the word used is edah, which means witness, ie... something that testifies; a precept of G-d. Now here's something interesting. The Brown-Driver-Briggs' Definition of this word is:
1) testimony, witness
1a) always plural and always of laws as divine testimonies


Now to the question at hand: Does the word "testimonies" refer to the Oral ?

After examining the verses in question (and a couple extra), the evidence seems to point heavily towards the affirmative. It does appear that the TaNaK reinforces the Oral . The only exception being in Sh'mot where it is talking about the Ark.

[Mark]

Thanks Netzar Y'hudi,

That's pretty much the same conclusion that I arrived at following pretty much the same course. I was hoping that there was some resources of antiquity (dead guys) who have taught the same thing. The reason is that when we present our own interpretation of Scripture, it can be dismissed as our own and thus iligitimized (or at least considered unimportant); however, if some dead guy said it a thousand years ago it carries some weight and bears some value of investigation.

[Mercedes]

Hey wait for me, I am coming in on this one too!

Shalom and Blessings Mark for your last kind words to me. I have some thoughts here that I think come from a different angle.
In Exodus 24:4 " and Moses wrote all the words of YHVH. 7 And he took the scroll of the covenant and read in the ears of the people."Now what was written on this? The ten commandments, festivals, laws... Then Moses goes up and the same thing is written again on the tablets Ex 34:28 "And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the ten commandments."
My understanding is that the covenant on Scroll was the terms of the agreement between 2 parties and a testament is the ratification of said agreement entered by 3.
For instance when I purchased my home me and the seller signed an agreement and we both had time to read carefully the agreement and even withdraw if we wanted, then we appeared together and I signed a "Testament"(my document says testament) that was ratified by a legal witness and third party which made it binding.
What is interesting to note is that Moses writes with HIS hand the agreement between him the people. While the testament is written in Gods' hand since the Lord represented full legal authority to bind the original covenant.
So i acknowledge the existence of both "secular testaments" and "The Holy Testament."
Because Testaments of Land, inheritance, marriage and many things were always ratified by three persons.

Blessings,
Mercedes

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Thus my conclusion is that the Testimonies that we keep are the celebrations of the Holy Days (specifically) as passed to us through Oral (the "How To" of celebrating the feasts.

I lean towards "The Testimonies" as being the Moedim (The Feasts) as commanded in as they testify of what Adonai has done in the past for His people and what He will do in the future, but I am not so convinced that it has much to do with the Talmud and Mishnah as we know it today.

Shalom chaverim,

Reuel