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Post by Mpossoff on Mar 12, 2007 23:40:50 GMT -8
Hi all, Now I was talking to someone at my congregation. What blew my mind was that he said he was taking his family out to dinner to a Mexican restaurant on Sabbath. OK? I had some questions about this. First question was(not related to this subject) was 'Is it OK to take your family out to dinner on Sabbath? His answer was the Sabbath is Holy and and we do 'special' things on the Sabbath as it is sanctified. He said when his children were younger they would do 'special' things on the Sabbath, in addition to worship and study. OK? I kind of got what he was talking about. I asked him 'Don't you keep Kosher, you're eating at a Mexican restuarant? He said he does keep kosher. Now I was doing some study about kosher based on the . I even did some Google searches and came up with 'rabbinical kosher' as well as kosher. So I'm asking based on scripture and not Halakah what is kosher? And I'd like to hear how you and your family 'keep' kosher. Marc
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Post by Nachshon on Mar 13, 2007 8:17:12 GMT -8
My family doesn't engage in commerce on Shabbat, as a part of setting it apart from the other days. It says to remember it to keep it holy, that is set apart. We are supposed to distinguish, and that is one way that we do it. Regarding Rabbinic Kasher verses Kasher, well, there are Rabbinic commands that are not found in the written . It would be possible to keep Biblically Kasher, without keeping Rabbinic Kasher, in theory. However, there are so many things that aren't kasher that my family only eats things and at places that are certified kasher. There are things like the stuff they put in onion powder, to keep it from clumping is often un-kasher. The coating they put on mints is often from the water strained off of boiled gnats. There are thousands of little things that it's virtually impossible to know about. We used to say that you could keep kasher without only eating stuff that is certified, but eventually we realised it's just plain not possible. I highly reccomend the book "Holy Cow." It's all about Kasher eating. There are other online books that point out even more things. Shalom ma'iyr haqoddesh, Nachshon
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Post by Yochana on Mar 13, 2007 20:21:48 GMT -8
Nehemiah 13:15 During this time I saw in Y'hudah some people who were treading winepresses on Shabbat, also bringing in heaps of grain and loading donkeys with it, likewise wine, grapes, figs and all kinds of loads; and they were bringing them into Yerushalayim on the day of Shabbat. On the day when they were planning to sell the food, I warned them not to. 16 There were also living there people from Tzor who brought in fish and all kinds of goods, and sold them on Shabbat to the people in Y'hudah and even in Yerushalayim. 17 I disputed with the nobles of Y'hudah, demanding of them, "What is this terrible thing you are doing, profaning the day of Shabbat? 18 Didn't your ancestors do this, and didn't our God bring all this disaster on us and on this city? Yet you are bringing still more fury against Isra'el by profaning Shabbat!" 19 So when the gates of Yerushalayim began to grow dark before Shabbat, I ordered that the doors be shut; and I ordered that they not be reopened until after Shabbat. I put some of my servants in charge of the gates, to see to it that no loads be brought in on Shabbat. 20 The merchants and sellers of all kinds of goods spent the night outside Yerushalayim once or twice, 21 until I warned them, "Why are you spending the night by the wall? Do it again, and I'll use force against you!" From then on they stopped coming on Shabbat. 22 Then I ordered the L'vi'im to purify themselves and come and guard the gates, in order to keep the day of Shabbat holy. My God, remember this too for me, and have mercy on me in keeping with the greatness of your grace!
My family and I are vegetarians. Makes life a little more simple, and it means that the family members that keep rabbinic kosher can eat in our home without worry.
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Post by Mark on Mar 14, 2007 4:12:36 GMT -8
I think an important text for us to consider here is Nehemiah 13:15-17. It is clearly commanded that we neither work (practice our vocational employment) nor require others to practice theirs. This is why we do our very best to avoid anything that would require any person going to work. This includes resteraunts. For our family, the only time the children get a sweet breakfast cereal (cocoa crispies is their favorite) is on Shabbat. This is not only speacial for them, it makes the whole morning routine much more restful for Mom (in fact, some times we don't see her come out until around nine). It is very important that we live true to our own convictions of obedience and allow the Spirit of Adonai to lead us and not get too caught up in where others are in their walk. It is also important to understand that not everyone who has an interest in the Messianic perspective of faith is committed to : some just come because it is novel, some like the music, some have a love for Israel. It's also important to realize that Adonai is moving people in obedience to Him according to His own agenda and along His own timeline. This fellow may be dealing with other issues of obedience right now and Sabbat observance isn't the mitzvot that Ruakh haKodesh is presently refining. I woudl include this man in your prayers and allow the Spirit to lead you in how you oughtto relate to him. Chances are good that you may be a vehicle through which the Spirit may be able to minister.
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Post by Mark on Mar 14, 2007 4:21:37 GMT -8
Back top your question, the biggest distinguisher between biblical kosher and rabbinical kosher is the separation of meat and dairy. In Genesis 18, Abraham served Adonai milk with beef; therefore most of us think that if it were good enough for God then it must be okay for me. Rabbinically, the command not to seethe a kid in its mother's milk condemns the serving of these foods together.
In restraunt food, it is important to look a little closer. It is worth calling ahead to places you prefer to eat and ask if they use animal fat in their cooking- if they do, it is probably high in pork fat. We enjoy a chinese place here in town but they use only vegetable oil in their cooking (many places do because it is actually safer and easier to clean).
bon apetite,
Mark
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Post by Mpossoff on Mar 14, 2007 4:44:11 GMT -8
Hi Mark, I was referring to Leviticus 11. Marc Back top your question, the biggest distinguisher between biblical kosher and rabbinical kosher is the separation of meat and dairy. In Genesis 18, Abraham served Adonai milk with beef; therefore most of us think that if it were good enough for God then it must be okay for me. Rabbinically, the command not to seethe a kid in its mother's milk condemns the serving of these foods together. In restraunt food, it is important to look a little closer. It is worth calling ahead to places you prefer to eat and ask if they use animal fat in their cooking- if they do, it is probably high in pork fat. We enjoy a chinese place here in town but they use only vegetable oil in their cooking (many places do because it is actually safer and easier to clean). bon apetite, Mark
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Post by Mpossoff on Mar 14, 2007 4:45:23 GMT -8
Hmmm didn't think of that. Marc I think an important text for us to consider here is Nehemiah 13:15-17. It is clearly commanded that we neither work (practice our vocational employment) nor require others to practice theirs. This is why we do our very best to avoid anything that would require any person going to work. This includes resteraunts. For our family, the only time the children get a sweet breakfast cereal (cocoa crispies is their favorite) is on Shabbat. This is not only speacial for them, it makes the whole morning routine much more restful for Mom (in fact, some times we don't see her come out until around nine). It is very important that we live true to our own convictions of obedience and allow the Spirit of Adonai to lead us and not get too caught up in where others are in their walk. It is also important to understand that not everyone who has an interest in the Messianic perspective of faith is committed to : some just come because it is novel, some like the music, some have a love for Israel. It's also important to realize that Adonai is moving people in obedience to Him according to His own agenda and along His own timeline. This fellow may be dealing with other issues of obedience right now and Sabbat observance isn't the mitzvot that Ruakh haKodesh is presently refining. I woudl include this man in your prayers and allow the Spirit to lead you in how you oughtto relate to him. Chances are good that you may be a vehicle through which the Spirit may be able to minister.
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Post by Nachshon on Mar 14, 2007 6:35:17 GMT -8
You should really check out the book I suggested. There are more tiny little things that are grossly unkosher than you can ever imagine. It's really disgusting. That's why my family only eats food that is certified. Back top your question, the biggest distinguisher between biblical kosher and rabbinical kosher is the separation of meat and dairy. In Genesis 18, Abraham served Adonai milk with beef; therefore most of us think that if it were good enough for God then it must be okay for me. Rabbinically, the command not to seethe a kid in its mother's milk condemns the serving of these foods together. In restraunt food, it is important to look a little closer. It is worth calling ahead to places you prefer to eat and ask if they use animal fat in their cooking- if they do, it is probably high in pork fat. We enjoy a chinese place here in town but they use only vegetable oil in their cooking (many places do because it is actually safer and easier to clean). bon apetite, Mark
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Mar 14, 2007 6:40:29 GMT -8
Back top your question, the biggest distinguisher between biblical kosher and rabbinical kosher is the separation of meat and dairy. In Genesis 18, Abraham served Adonai milk with beef; therefore most of us think that if it were good enough for God then it must be okay for me. Rabbinically, the command not to seethe a kid in its mother's milk condemns the serving of these foods together. In restraunt food, it is important to look a little closer. It is worth calling ahead to places you prefer to eat and ask if they use animal fat in their cooking- if they do, it is probably high in pork fat. We enjoy a chinese place here in town but they use only vegetable oil in their cooking (many places do because it is actually safer and easier to clean). bon apetite, Mark There a couple other things to note too. Mark, I don't know about the Chinese restaurant in your area, but the biggest problem I've run into with Chinese food is that they tend to use shellfish derivatives with most of the foods they cook. Marc, I think you mentioned a Mexican restaurant right? I don't know how they cook their food up in Jersey but down here in Texas where there are many Mexican restaurants, they cook everything in lard. Even chains like 'On the Border' cook their beans with bacon, and use chicken stock in their rice. So even though my wife and I still 'eat out' from time to time, we only eat vegetarian (though you still have to check with the manager to ensure they don't cook meat in the same area or use it in the dish).
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