Graven Images...

[Prodigal Girl]

Any comments on? I previously have thought that nativity scenes were ok since I was not worshipping them like Catholics apparrently do. But now I am not so sure. Today in church they had a huge picture of a statue of Christ on the big screen, to go along with the music and somehow I sat there thinking twice about it.

[Mark]

It is important to make a distinction between an icon and an image. An icon is a visual representation of an idea: when we see a cross, or a statue representing what has become commonly acknowledged as a the Messiah, the person should be the object of our thought, not the actual thing that is before our eyes. This is an icon and is no different than a flag which represents a country or lines drawn on a page which represent words and ideas.

An image (or idol) is a thing of iteself (though it can also be represented by icons as we see in modern druidism and witchcraft). It is a thing disigned for for the purpose of receiving our worship.

Is Catholocism idolatrous? To some it is- but I'm afraid that I can't be the one to condemn one for kneeling before a statue of Christ when in their hearts they are kneeling to the person of Christ, using the representation as an icon. To do so from a Judaic perspective would be most hypocritical- when we have amulets that are nailed to our doorframes... for our protection? and we wrap ourselves in shrouds for prayer and face toward the rising of the sun, binding our hands with leather straps. These are all misrepresentations- views of an outsider who doesn't understand what it actually is that we do when we participate in a style fo worship that I, personally, find very valuable. So, at the same time, I must be careful in assuming that another's practice is as blatant idolatry as one might accuse me.

There was a point in our worship (my wife and I) that we removed all pictures from our home- no cassette cases with images on them (only words), no pictures on the walls, no books that had photgraphs. Most people would say that was pretty extreme... and, it was. I just want to tell you that I understand where you are. Here's what I've found to be the key: In everything you do, in word or deed, do all to the glory of God; giving thanks to Him through Messiah Yeshua. If you go into a panic trying to fix everything and and become righteous in the sight of Adonai by tomorrow, you're going to wear yourself out, destroy your marriage, and find your testimony to the world as written off as one of those crazy, radical hypocrites (and that is what you will become). I suggest you spend a greater time in prayer over the Word of Adonai, allowing the Holy Spirit (Ruakh haKodesh) to guide you into all truth. Don't try to define and do it all at once- work on those things that are most obvious to your life, placing a greater emphasis upon who you are (how you behave) above what circumstances you live in and changing the things about yourself above determining what is right or wrong in the conduct of others.

[Chizuk Emunah]

I disagree. I don't see how a mezuzah, tallis, or tefillin can be construed as amulets. We do not do these things for our "protection," but because HaShem commanded them of us.

Also, using images or icons (same thing IMO) for worship, even if you worship HaShem, is clearly forbidden according to . Am Yisrael was not worshipping the golden calf, but using it as an image that represented HaShem. And we see how severely they were punished for doing so.

I do agree however, with the statement that you shouldn't try to do everything all that once. Start with one category, like Shabbos, and as you learn how to observe it, you can continue to grow from there. Be careful though, if you grow too quickly and implement many things when your spouse is not ready as it is bound to create strife. And that is certainly something you don't want.

Shavua Tov,
Natanel

[Prodigal Girl]

Mark: Sounds good, all good advice.

[Mark]

Hi Natanel,

First, I hope that you have not been offended- please know that I have mezuzahs on my door and I wear a tallit in prayer. Yet, you should also be aware that these things that we practice are defined among some Christians as idolatry- just as some traditions of Catholicism are defined.

I'd like to take just a moment to give you some biblical examples of the difference between ab idol and an icon:

the MercySeat which sat on the Ark of the Covenant. It had an image beaten into it of cherubim. Was this an idol? What about the bronze serpent that stood on the pole? No, these weren't objects to be worshiped; but they were representations of the presence and power of Adonai. By the way, the bronze serpent was worshipped. This is the difference between an icon and an idol (the bronze serpent which started out as an icon became an idol).

I used the examples of the tallit and mezuzah to demonstrate that we are sometimes misrepresented and unjustly condemned by those who don't understand what we are doing. It seems to me that we must extend the same courtesy that we might expect from others. For some, a mezuzah is a "good luck charm" that wards away evil. There are some strains of Kaballah that follow this notion (and unfortunately, the rest of Judaism is sometimes defined by the most extreme examples).

[Nachshon]

Mark, the cherubim were neither molded nor graven. There is no ban on beaten images. There is a ban on any image, whether worshipped or not, that is graven (carved, chiseled, etc) or molded. That is stated clearly in Exodus 20. So as long as these were not being worshipped, it is fine. Also, the presence of YHWH literally stood between the two cherubim. There is no question about that. When the Qohen HaGadol paid homage to that place, it was not to the images of the Cherubim, but to the Presence which was between them.

Shalom,
Nachshon

[Chizuk Emunah]

Mark,

Oh no, I'm not offended. I just didn't see how they could be considered amulets. I guess they could be to some though.

You're right though... the bronze serpent was later worshipped in Israel, as was the golden calf. Yereboam was responsible for setting up the high places with the golden calves, I'm not sure who set up the serpent though.

Chag Sameach,
Natanel