Question re Sabbath

[Vaneide]

Shabbat shalom, everyone

For those who depends on the INTERNET to hear about on the shabbat day, there is a site which give you free rooms for conversation and lots of shabbats services. I have been participating in some of then and they are very good.

Here is the site: www.paltalk.com/

You just have to subscribe or do the download to go in the free rooms and after that find the rooms of Christianity. There, you will find different rooms; Christianity and messianic.

May Adonai bless you all,

Vaneide.

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Shalom chaverim,

I think that some here are getting a bit defensive and we need to be a little more longsuffering while we all try our best to be more sensitive and loving.

I don't have a problem with keeping fence laws, either. My objection is when someone attempts to make them commandments, on equal footing with the commands in .

Amein, this is one of the things that Ahavat Elohim stands for. There is only one Rabbi that holds an authoritative opinion on issues of halachah on this forum...Yeshua The Messiah. This Rabbi gives authority to all others. Rabbis that reject Messiah Yeshua have possibly some good wisdom to share from time to time, but their enactments certainly are not authoritative in the body of Messiah. All those whom have spent much time on this forum should be very aware of this by now. So, please do not be surprised if one is held accountable by me or any one of the members of this forum regarding this issue.

The passage in Yesha'yahu (Isai.) does not speak negatively of using the internet to build the Kingdom, fellowship, and learn more about the Word of Elohim in any negative way...Let's take a closer look...

"Those who shall be of you shall build the old waste places; you shall raise up the foundations of many generations; and you shall be called the repairer of the breach, the restorer of paths to dwell in. If you turn away your foot from the Shabbat, from doing your pleasure on my holy day; and call the Shabbat a delight, and the holy of YHVH honorable; and shall honor it, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words: then shall you delight yourself in YHVH; and I will make you to ride on the high places of the earth; and I will feed you with the heritage of Ya`akov your father: for the mouth of YHVH has spoken it." - Yesha'yahu (Isa.) 58:12-14

I believe the point of the above passage is not to do our own things and our own carnal pleasures on Shabbat. But, what if we are delighting in Adonai while using the Internet as a tool??

"Also delight yourself in YHVH, and he will give you the desires of your heart." - Tehellim (Psa.) 37:4

When we delight in the things of Adonai we will recieve the desires of our heart because His will is then our delight. Is this then carnal?? I think not. You see the point of our passage in Yesha'yahu is to delight in Adonai on Shabbat...

"...nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words: then shall you delight yourself in YHVH..."

Therefore, if we are not speaking our own words, but are speaking the words of YHVH and delighting in His Word, His son Yeshua, and sharing them with others...are we not delighting ourselves in the ways of Adonai? Yes, this is the major point of this passage if we read it in context...Take a look at the first verse in the passage in question...

"Those who shall be of you shall build the old waste places; you shall raise up the foundations of many generations; and you shall be called The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in."

I would ask, are we not restoring the paths to dwell in if we are teaching and discussing His word over the internet on the day of Shabbat? If we are indeed magnifying His while on the Internet we are fulfilling the positive exhortations found in this passage. Remember the halachah of our True Rabbi...

"And behold there was a man with a withered hand. They asked him, "Is it lawful to heal on the day of Shabbat?" that they might accuse him. He said to them, "What man is there among you, who has one sheep, and if this one falls into a pit on the day of Shabbat, won't he grab on to it, and lift it out? Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the day of Shabbat." Then he told the man, "Stretch out your hand." He stretched it out; and it was restored whole, just like the other." - Mattityahu (Matt.) 12:10-13

"When he had looked around at them with anger, being grieved at the hardening of their hearts, he said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He stretched it out, and his hand was restored as healthy as the other." - Mark 3:5

Search your hearts brothers and sisters...would Messiah be grieved with you? Is not Adonai using the Internet to restore both man and woman through presentation of the truth? Please consider the words of the The Rabbi before you consider the words of a rabbi that rejects the words of The Rabbi. Did our Master do creative works on Shabbat?? Of course He did! Reread the previous passage. Restoring others so that they may serve Adonai Elohim with their whole heart, soul, and strength is certainly in accordance with our Master's halachah, which states, "Therefore it is lawful to do good on the day of Shabbat.". Do we take a break on Shabbat of spreading B'surot Tovot (Good News) and the Word of Elohim? And, isn't the Internet just one of the many tools that we use to accomplish this? Everyone should be convinced in their own mind regarding this. For some that access the Internet on Shabbat...it is not to do good, to study the Word and to share it. Such ones should refrain from using the internet on Shabbat.

Therefore, in the name of Yeshua HaMashiach it is my judgment for this forum that it is lawful to access the Internet on Shabbat if it edifies the Kingdom Of Heaven. Walking in the footsteps of our Master and Creator, this includes all creative acts that restore men and women to the truth.

Shalom aleychem chaverim,

Reuel

[nasah]

My fellow brothers and sisters,

I have been pondering this particular issue for ever since i learned from God about the sabbath.
Recently more so than ever, because of the very things mentioned in this topic.

I agree with Nachshon's reply #4 in particular this part of the reply which stood out was:

"Where does it say that we are not to create on Shabbat? What I see is that Father created on Shabbat. It is written, "And on the seventh day God finished His work" This is completing a circuit, in essence. What did He create? Shabbat."

I look at Yeshua and see He appears to have been seeking out those in need on the Sabbath, SERVING others NOT seeking His own pleasure.
He healed people, wasn't that creating something? If someone had been thirsty, and there was no water, I seriously doubt he would have refrained from creating a cup of water out of nothing......

God did create something on the Sabbath, the works we are to do as Yeshua did on the Sabbath, being a complete servant to those around us and shine a Godly light onto anyone. The Sabbath is a picture of the world to come, a single day on which we celebrate His holiness being Holy as he is holy. A day where we set aside all our worries of need for self preservation and troubles, and labor towards that end, as well as our pleasures to walk as He walked, so that in it we can become more trained and aware of what it is to be Holy.

A day fully set aside in His holiness, a day of full training. A 24 hour period that will eventually spill over into the rest of the week as it takes hold through practice and learning to be like Him.

In this way i see a closed circuit like Nachshon said.

Remember what Yeshua said? I am the Lord of the Sabbath...... and He also said He was the alpha and the omega, the Aleph and the Tav... the beginning and the end......


Now i still struggle hard as anyone else to be holy as He is holy on the Sabbath, but having been equipped with the understanding i can now work towards reaching that goal, to enter that rest.....

We are free when we don't labor and work for ourselves....

In that regard if the only means for me to feed a hungry person on the sabbath would be to kindle a fire i would do just that.

Remember the weightier matters of the Law? Compassion, love mercy and justice.
If we go by these we condemn no one and likewisewe won't be condemned either for anything we do on the Sabbath. Only those who lack these things condemn others like they did Yeshua on the Sabbath.....

Shalom,
nasah

[alon]

Very interesting discussion here, and a topic I've thought on with more than a little trepidation at times.

I do use the computer to study, compile notes, and to find a live stream Messianic service (often on this site), as it is too far for me to travel to any synagogue every week. Whenever I do, I sometimes see that there are more people "lurking" than are currently active here. Hmmm ... Why not sign in, find the live stream, and get something out of it? Is any of this a sin? I think we can interpret scripture to say whatever we want on this issue (as we have seen here)- but no, I don't see it as a sin. Maybe I'm too loose in interpreting things, but it is a modern tool that brings "God" (or at least Godly instruction) closer to me on Shabbat.

I do not, however do such things a shop or browse for things other than Messianic instruction on Shabbat.

I drive on Shabbat as well. I like to visit my mom every Shabbat, if possible. I visit through the week as well, but she can depend on this visit (to her every Saturday), and she likes that. So is this a sin? Not unless I were to do it just because she is on the way to Wall Mart- which it is, but which I most certainly do not do.

I sometimes do other good deeds or work for the Lord on Shabbat. I asked Rabbi S. about this, and he said that mitzvoth are always allowed, so long as the task couldn't as well be done on another day. Also I cannot profit from it in any way.

I suppose I could go to Shabbat service instead, by mule no less. But that'd take 2-3 days there and a couple more back. My mom would be lonely and I'd have to rest up from my day of rest so I could do it again. So, no thanks. I'll stick to watching a live stream service, then driving over to see mom. If these are sins, they are unintentional, and there is always Yom Kippur for these. Not that I'd sin lightly and try to repent once a year- which would be the very antithesis of the meaning of Yom Kippur anyhow.

I can see the value in fences. However I can also see the danger, which is demonstrated in Rabbinical Judaism, where we can become fenced in- prisoners of the "law", instead of benefactors of HaShem's instructions.

I won't repeat the scriptural references, which have mostly already been given. This is just my interpretation; where I am at in my own understanding, for whatever it's worth.

Dan C