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Post by Tzav_laTzav on Jan 27, 2007 21:17:23 GMT -8
Among my people, we are strongly taught to separate Shabbat from the week. A small part of that separation is that it is suggested to stay away from the Internet. However, I use the Internet to almost exclusively for discussing the Bible, for interaction with other believers, and for study. Bluntly, although I do this all through the week as well, I see no problem with doing it on the Sabbath.
I know I should be asking this at the shul, but I would like other opinions as well: not opinions intended to please me or to salve the conscience but opinions that will please HaShem first.
Please tell me what you are thinking.
And thank you in advance.
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Post by Nachshon on Jan 27, 2007 21:56:28 GMT -8
I use my internet every Shabbat because I don't have the study tools I need. That's partly because I don't have the money. But I don't see any reason why one shouldn't use the computor or internet on Shabbat. There is no commandment regarding it.
Shalom,
David
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Post by Nachshon on Jan 28, 2007 9:11:10 GMT -8
I'm afraid I don't see the idea of not doing creative acts on Shabbat in  . If that is the case you cannot get a drink, because getting a drink involves creating a vacuume in your mouth. That is creative, no? You would also have to beware of dreaming on the Shabbat. That is creating images in your head, is it not? Where does it say that we are not to create on Shabbat? What I see is that Father created on Shabbat. It is written, "And on the seventh day God finished His work" This is completing a circuit, in essence. What did He create? Shabbat. Kindling an electric fire, there is more of a point there. However, if we are going to get that technical about fire, you would have to be stone dead every Shabbat, because your body technically operates on combustion. The word "kindle" in Exodus 35:3 is ba'ar, meaning "feed upon" or "kindle" or "consume." Inherint in this is the idea of something being eaten up by fire. What is eaten up by your electric fire? Shalom, Nachshon |
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Post by Tzav_laTzav on Jan 28, 2007 11:14:00 GMT -8
I love it! This is like being at the shul! I am not sure i have my answer, but i have things to think about! This is great!
When I walk into my office at anytime, I see the red, blue, and green lights flashing in my computer tower: it is always on, unless we are expecting a storm. I understand that as I select the keys, I am creating, on the screen, symbols that represent words.
If I speak to my husband or in the shul, that, too, is creating thought, giving it out, and causing others create thought based upon what they hear/don't hear. If I rejoice on that day, as commanded, I am creating similarly.
So what should we, individually, do/not do, in order to separate Shabbat from the rest of the week? Should it not include computers, if it is on continually anyway? Also, I ask about individuals, because my husband is Christian and observes "Sabbath" on Sundays most weeks, while he faithfully observes it on the last day when he has it off from work every 6 weeks and during his vacations.
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Pioneer
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Shema and Shemar
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Post by Pioneer on Jan 28, 2007 11:24:13 GMT -8
I use my internet every Shabbat because I don't have the study tools I need. That's partly because I don't have the money. But I don't see any reason why one shouldn't use the computor or internet on Shabbat. There is no commandment regarding it. Shalom, David You are ALMOST correct! There is no mention of the internet! Isaiah 58:13 ¶ "If you turn back your foot from the sabbath, from doing your pleasure on my holy day, and call the sabbath a delight and the holy day of the LORD honorable; if you honor it, not going your own ways, or seeking your own pleasure, or talking idly; I may be ignorant, but to me this means I should not do all the common everyday things that bring me carnal pleasure. If the internet is the only way you can come close to God, then go ahead and get close to God. I am not your judge. Shalom |
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Post by Nachshon on Jan 28, 2007 11:41:30 GMT -8
I use my internet every Shabbat because I don't have the study tools I need. That's partly because I don't have the money. But I don't see any reason why one shouldn't use the computor or internet on Shabbat. There is no commandment regarding it. Shalom, David You are ALMOST correct! There is no mention of the internet! Isaiah 58:13 ¶ "If you turn back your foot from the sabbath, from doing your pleasure on my holy day, and call the sabbath a delight and the holy day of the LORD honorable; if you honor it, not going your own ways, or seeking your own pleasure, or talking idly; I may be ignorant, but to me this means I should not do all the common everyday things that bring me carnal pleasure. If the internet is the only way you can come close to God, then go ahead and get close to God. I am not your judge. Shalom Even if it is not your only way, why not use it if it assists you in studying Scripture and drawing close to Father? We have more than one way of doing it normally. We can praise, and we can study, and both draw us close, so I don't think it should only be used if it is one's "only" means of drawing close. Shalom, Nachshon |
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Post by Nachshon on Jan 28, 2007 11:46:05 GMT -8
How do we separate it? That is a difficult question if you're not rabbinic. :-D Don't have anything to do with money, simply because that is either working, or causing someone else to work. If you earn money from it, don't do it (with the exception of feeding animals. That exception is made quite plainly in ). Also, don't do any of your common work. My mom doesn't cook on Shabbat, because that is her common work. (our oven and stove are both electric, so I don't have a problem with using them, as I don't consider that kindling a fire, so long as one doesn't do anything "laborious" with them. If one were to prepare a whole meal, that would, I think, be laborious. However, if one is making a cup of tea, that wouldn't be labor.) Basically, it is a day to be spent on three things: rest, study, and worship. That, I think, is how we set it apart. Beyond these three, we shouldn't do anything that isn't necessary. |
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Post by Pioneer on Jan 28, 2007 12:00:57 GMT -8
How do we separate it? That is a difficult question if you're not rabbinic. :-D Don't have anything to do with money, simply because that is either working, or causing someone else to work. If you earn money from it, don't do it (with the exception of feeding animals. That exception is made quite plainly in ). Also, don't do any of your common work. My mom doesn't cook on Shabbat, because that is her common work. (our oven and stove are both electric, so I don't have a problem with using them, as I don't consider that kindling a fire, so long as one doesn't do anything "laborious" with them. If one were to prepare a whole meal, that would, I think, be laborious. However, if one is making a cup of tea, that wouldn't be labor.) Basically, it is a day to be spent on three things: rest, study, and worship. That, I think, is how we set it apart. Beyond these three, we shouldn't do anything that isn't necessary. There you go! Without some guideline you just hope you are not sinning bigtime against the Lord. The Rabbi's have described what is common and labor,i.e. the things required to construct the Tabernacle. I am glad they made halakah as to what a "Battlement/parapet" is to look like and even if a fool were to climb up it and fall to his death, if I built my parapet to the required height and strength, I would not be judged as negligent. Too bad you just have to guess. Shalom |
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Post by Nachshon on Jan 28, 2007 12:10:15 GMT -8
lol. And too bad you've added to the . Catch 22. My guessing verses your rabbiym. lol. You're hilarious. Basically, you've simply shifted the blame, and nothing more. I guess, and you let the "sages" do the guessing for you. What's the difference? lol. You're funny. Shalom, Nachshon |
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Post by Pioneer on Jan 28, 2007 13:07:02 GMT -8
lol. And too bad you've added to the . Catch 22. My guessing verses your rabbiym. lol. You're hilarious. Basically, you've simply shifted the blame, and nothing more. I guess, and you let the "sages" do the guessing for you. What's the difference? lol. You're funny. Shalom, Nachshon I never took you to be one who says "Don't confuse me with the facts! My mind is made up." But alas it seems you brow beat everyone who sees the value of Judges who define the parameters of the Law. So much fo a U S Supreme Court. They're just a bunch of ADDERS! 12 And say, How have I hated instruction, and my heart despised reproof; 13 And have not obeyed the voice of my teachers, nor inclined mine ear to them that instructed me! Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: 6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. 8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; You are right that teachers, the ones who possess much knowledge are the ones to do the quessing. I will take the guess of a Rabbi who has studyied for forty years over a son of the commandments any day. And yes the teacher is responsible for his words. He will pay dearly for any "False Teaching." "Better a millstone-" Shalom |
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Post by Blake on Jan 28, 2007 21:39:47 GMT -8
This is where fencelaws are useful in my opinion. Better safe than sorry. I'd rather keep extra non-obilgatory laws to avoid breakint the mitzwah itself. If you build a fence around the law, you can afford to run over the fence without hitting the law itself. Hopefully you have sense enough to hit the brakes when you notice the white picket is under the car.  |
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Post by Blake on Jan 28, 2007 21:53:52 GMT -8
lol. And too bad you've added to the . Catch 22. My guessing verses your rabbiym. lol. You're hilarious. Basically, you've simply shifted the blame, and nothing more. I guess, and you let the "sages" do the guessing for you. What's the difference? lol. You're funny. Shalom, Nachshon This is disrepectful my friend. I would never belittle you or people you hold in high regard. |
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Post by Nachshon on Jan 29, 2007 7:46:35 GMT -8
This is where fencelaws are useful in my opinion. Better safe than sorry. I'd rather keep extra non-obilgatory laws to avoid breakint the mitzwah itself. If you build a fence around the law, you can afford to run over the fence without hitting the law itself. Hopefully you have sense enough to hit the brakes when you notice the white picket is under the car. I don't have a problem with keeping fence laws, either. My objection is when someone attempts to make them commandments, on equal footing with the commands in . |
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Post by Tzav_laTzav on Jan 29, 2007 18:30:46 GMT -8
Please, people. This breaks my heart for you. Can we stop this, please?
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Post by Blake on Jan 30, 2007 2:19:27 GMT -8
Return evil with kindness Nachson. You know this is correct path.
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. If that is the case you cannot get a drink, because getting a drink involves creating a vacuume in your mouth. That is creative, no? You would also have to beware of dreaming on the Shabbat. That is creating images in your head, is it not? Where does it say that we are not to create on Shabbat? What I see is that Father created on Shabbat. It is written, "And on the seventh day God finished His work" This is completing a circuit, in essence. What did He create? Shabbat.
