Kindness to animals

[Mark]

Is it commanded in that we should demonstrate kindness toward animals?

[jewishjediguy]

mark said:

Is it commanded in that we should demonstrate kindness toward animals?

D'varim 22:6,7
6 If a bird's nest happens to be before you in the way in any tree, or on the ground, with young ones, or eggs; and the mother is sitting on the young, or on the eggs, you shall not take the mother with the young.
7 But in every case you shall let the mother go, and take the young for yourself, so that it may be well with you, and you may prolong your days.

The affectionate relation of parents to their young, which God had established even in the animal world, was also to be kept just as sacred. If any one found a bird's nest by the road upon a tree, or upon the ground, with young ones or eggs, and the mother sitting upon them, he was not to take the mother with the young ones, but to let the mother fly, and only take the young.

This Mitz'vah is related to the one in Va Yik'ra 22:27,28:
27 When an ox, or lamb, or goat is born, and when it has been seven days under its mother, then from the eighth day and onward it is acceptable for an offering, a fire offering to YHVH;
28 but an ox or sheep, it and its young one, you shall not slaughter in one day.

and also in Sh'moth 23:19:
19b You shall not boil a kid in its mother's milk.

This Mitz'vah is also placed upon a par with the Mitz'vah relating to parents, by the fact that obedience is urged upon the people by the same promise in both instances.

Sh'moth 20:12
Honor your father and your mother, so that your days may be long on the land which YHVH your God is giving to you.

D'varim 5:16
Honor your father and your mother, as YHVH your God has commanded you, so that your days may be prolonged, and so that it may be well with you in the land which YHVH your God is giving to you.

And of course, there's one of my all time favourite proverbs:

Mish'lei 12:10
A righteous man regards the life of even his animal: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruelty.

B'Yeshua,
Yochanan

[Bob]

So would this mean that the sacrifice or eating of an animal would be an act of unkindness or is this only relating to how we treat them while they're alive? Please don't think I'm being condescending but some of these passages tend to go in 2 directions if you are looking at it from a modern animal rights point of view.

[jewishjediguy]

Apr 13, 2008 19:42:31 GMT -8 Bob said:

So would this mean that the sacrifice or eating of an animal would be an act of unkindness or is this only relating to how we treat them while they're alive? Please don't think I'm being condescending but some of these passages tend to go in 2 directions if you are looking at it from a modern animal rights point of view.

Shalom Bob
i don't think you're being condescending whatsoever. it is how we treat them as both a sacrifice and a munchie the view on "animal rights" has absolutely nothing to do with it. "animal rights" is a concept of the 20th century and was never even considered back then. the way we may perceive "animal rights" is not locked into a box that says it has to be done this way or that within the . it could be considered animal rights enough to simply provide an animal with a warm place to live and to be fed until it is utilized in a sacrifice offering. and the idea of sacrifice is the giving up of something precious or highly valued to you. like an ox that pulls your cart. or a sheep that gives you fine wool. the question of this thread is:

"Is it commanded in that we should demonstrate kindness toward animals?"

i merely pointed to things written in the that are in the affirmative. yes we should be kind to animals. it is their right as a living thing, which has its place in God's order of things. but we have rights too. humankind was created to "have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth" Genesis 1:26, but of course this doesn't mean we have to be cruel. we do have the right to eat them

sacrifices are no more. a new question that could be asked would be:

was it cruelty to sacrifice animals in the first place?

i think not. the animals are ours to have dominion over. and God has dominion over us, and had demanded animal sacrifice from us. therefore it was of obligation, not cruelty. but as i said, it didn't mean we had to be cruel about it.

like i also said, sacrifice is giving up something precious to you, or highly valued. the ultimate sacrifice, for a child perhaps, would be to sacrifice his favourite lamb on passover. you know the love a child has for his own animal. imagine that love multiplied by infinity, and you still don't come close to the love the father had for His own Son, or even for us in giving Him up for a sacrifice.

much love and blessing in Yeshua,
~Yochanan

[jewishjediguy]

Apr 14, 2008 15:42:42 GMT -8 @vegangirl said:

BOb please be as condescending as you want to! It don't hurt my feelings! Your asking people that eat meat! I am the only one here that don't eat meat! and yet I am some what confuessed because it does sound like u guys feel bad for eating meat or killing animals.I need some light on this please!

Veggie girl,

coinsider this to be an admonishment. in reading this post, i cannot tell if you are joking or if you are really promoting a spirit of division. you must learn to use proper typing if you are joking, such as smily faces and an occassional "LOL", so that we do not get put off by you, think you're rude and start to delete your posts.

i have also noticed a complaint against your using exclamation marks alot, which may give some the feeling that you are yelling and possibly being demeaning and/or rude.

also, even if you are joking, you should really consider how you are communicating it, or if it is even proper to do so.

much love in Yeshua,
Yochanan

[Prodigal Girl]

Yochanan,
I am giving her the benefit of the doubt, I think what we have here is just someone who is:
1. Not in fluent command of English, which includes not knowing all the nuances of communication in that language.
2. Someone who is trying to find her way, after having been indoctrinated by the Mormon religion and who knows what else.
It almost always evokes strong emotion, when we find out that what we have believed is maybe not the way we always thought it was. It is unsettling when the rug is pulled out from under you. That is why the moderators have such an important job. We want to keep the dialogue going, and not let it get destructive, which gets none of us anywhere. Thanks for all your hard work, all of you!

[Prodigal Girl]

Hello vegangirl,
All of us are trying to find our way, in a sense, so don't be offended by that comment. That is why we participate in forums like this, to learn from each other. I would assume that ALL of us have been indoctrinated by whatever religious background we came from, to some degree or another, no matter what the name of it, and are trying to learn and overcome some of the false belief systems.
All of us make mistakes in communication from time to time, we probably will to the very end; it is all part of learning. But we can learn from others and forgive each other as we learn together. Keep coming to the forum.

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Shalom Vegangirl,

Many of us here on the forum do eat meat, and enjoy it very much. You will need to accept this here on the forum. We are not a vegan only forum.

Thank you,

Reuel

[Otto]

I am from the south and some times I think people could take my words wrong or how Hick I sound.

Vegangirl ya’ll from Da South? I’s from Da South too. South London! lol just joking.