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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Mar 30, 2004 16:58:50 GMT -8
Tithing is a subject that has it’s roots in  (first five books of the Bible). Although, many evangelical teachers reject as a path of holiness…they tend to hold unto the Tithing commandment. I have confronted evangelical pastors on this issue, and they make excuses as they try to divide into sections that they feel they want to follow, and sections they don’t want to follow. They basically are picking, and choosing when it comes to this. But of course, there is a reason why they tend to isolate this one commandment while rejecting the others. It does not take much thought in regards to why they do this. Personally, I believe that tithing is a biblical commandment that should be practiced. I stress the word “practice”. As I have already stated, tithing has it’s roots in The , and was in connection to The Levitical Priesthood, and celebrating the Appointed Times (Moedim)/Feasts of YHVH…. ”But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto YHVH, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.” Numbers 18:24 So, we see that the tithe was to go to the Levitical priesthood. Now, we can practice this commandment of tithing by giving to the ministries we support, but we are indeed “practicing” this until a true priesthood is reestablished, which will happen when Messiah comes to rule, and reign. In the next two passages we see that the tithe was also to be used to celebrate The Feasts of YHVH (Lev23) in which all able bodied males traveled to Jerusalem three times a year…. ”But unto the place which YHVH your G-d shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there, even unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come:
And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:
And there ye shall eat before YHVH your G-d, and ye shall rejoice in all that ye put your hand unto, ye and your households, wherein YHVH thy G-d hath blessed thee.” Deuteronomy 12:6-7 ”Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. And thou shalt eat before YHVH thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear YHVH thy G-d always.
And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which YHVH thy G-d shall choose to set his name there, when YHVH thy G-d hath blessed thee:
Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which YHVH thy G-d shall choose:
And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before YHVH thy G-d, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household" Deuteronomy 14:22-26 Actually, if we keep on reading we find that there were several tithes. Another commandment in regards to tithing is found in Deuteronomy 14:28-29 which was to be layed up every three years for Levite, the stranger, fatherless, and the widow. Just as the feasts of YHVH found in Lev.23 can only be rehearsed at this time, the commandment of tithing can only be practiced, or rehearsed until all things are restored by Messiah at His second coming. Until this happens, I highly recommend rehearsing these commandments. But, the scriptures make it clear that one should not give grudgingly (we are not to do any commandment grudgingly). We should practice these commandments out of a heart of love for our Heavenly Father. Any comments?, Reuel |
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Post by LovingNeighbor on Jun 25, 2004 23:33:17 GMT -8
Shalom all,
Ahh the tithe, what salvation is to christianity, the tithe is to the churches, a what's in it for me mentality. Well Satan showed Yahushuah the world and offered it to him if he would just bow down and worship him, He didn't HalleluYah because it wasn't about what's in it for me. as he stated not my will but thy will.
Anyways, I think that to say the tithe to church is practicing the tithe to the levites may not be correct. although viewed this way, I think if you give to a church it is a freewill offering not to be confused with the priest tithe, because that which is set apart for the levites is holy to YHWH and not to be given to someone or something other than to them. Since there is no levitical priesthood I think it's best to say we are not doing that tithe and then if you want give a freewill offering to your church. Otherwise you are giving what is holy and set apart to another and misusing it.
For now I just tithe for tabernacles and if we want to give we give freewill.
Shalom
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jun 26, 2004 10:51:22 GMT -8
I would agree that we should not confuse it with the tithe given to the Levites. But, I also think that in the absence of the Levitical Priesthood (not replacing) we can practice this Biblical model in regards to tithing to the ministry(s) in which G-d has placed in spiritual authority. This no doubt is the purpose of the tithe...to enable the ministry, and the spiritual priesthood of YHVH. And, I would also say that those whom have joined themselves, and dedicated themselves to YHVH could be viewed in this regard... "But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for possession, so that you might speak of the praises of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light"- 1Peter 2:9 "And they sang a new song, saying, You are worthy to take the book and to open its seals, for You were slain and have redeemed us to G'd by Your blood out of every kindred and tongue and people and nation. And You made us kings and priests to our G'd, and we will reign over the earth."Revelation 5:9-10 And, in regards to the two above passages, I always thought the following passage was interesting in regards to some of those of the nations (goyim) that come to faith... "And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those who escape from them to the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, drawers of the bow; to Tubal, and Javan, to the far away coasts that have not heard My fame, nor have seen My glory. And they will declare My glory among the nations. And they will bring all your brothers for an offering to YHVH out of all nations on horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and on mules, and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem, says YHVH, as the sons of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of YHVH. And I will also take some of them for priests and for Levites, says YHVH."- Isaiah 66:19-21 Of course this will all be set straight at Mashiach's coming. These are just my thoughts for the time.  Shalom achi, Reuel |
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Post by Frank T. Clark on Jun 29, 2004 16:15:12 GMT -8
I love the initial comment that people pick and choose what commandments/statutes they will keep and what they will discard as no longer binding. It is such a joke that supposedly religious people elevate themselves to the place of God to choose what they will obey. They can always find some verse to quote as an excuse.
This subject is extremely interesting. All my life I have practiced tithing to the church or other appropriate ministry.
What does it mean to tithe for tabernacles?
If I understand what Reuel is saying, the tithe is also to be used by the traveler when they are gathered to Jerusalem to celebrate the feasts. I would be interested in more ideas about how this applies today.
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Angel
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"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge..." Hosea 4:6
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Post by Angel on Jun 29, 2004 19:53:04 GMT -8
Malachi 3:8-12
8"Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed Me!
But you say, "In what way have we robbed You?'
In tithes and offerings.
9You are cursed with a curse, For you have robbed Me, Even this whole nation.
10Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, That there may be food in My house, And try Me now in this," Says the LORD of hosts,
"If I will not open for you the windows of heaven And pour out for you such blessing That there will not be room enough to receive it.
11"And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, So that he will not destroy the fruit of your ground,
Nor shall the vine fail to bear fruit for you in the field," Says the LORD of hosts;
12And all nations will call you blessed, For you will be a delightful land," Says the LORD of hosts.
I have always believed that everything that I have, is given to me by G-d, therefore, it is not mine, but His.
I know that G-d has no need or use for money -- I certainly do... but, I have been taught that my tithe is given in an act of worship. When I give back to G-d what is His, I acknowledge His "ownership" over my life and all things in my life. I give, not out of obedience to His command, but out of love for Him -- this is why I consider it a personal act of worship.
As for "how much" do I tithe? I always give 10% of my gross earnings -- whether it be from my disability income or gifts received from others... 10% is my tithe to the L-rd.
As for "who" do I give my tithes to? As my brother Reuel stated:
Anything that I give, in addition to my tithes, I give as an offering, planting a seed to a favored charity or organization that G-d has placed upon my heart ( usually for missionaries and other groups in Israel because I strongly believe "to the Jew first, then to the Gentile" ).
I am blessed to bless...
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jun 29, 2004 21:13:25 GMT -8
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Curt
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Post by Curt on Jun 30, 2004 17:35:26 GMT -8
Reuel, Tithing actually was originated long before Moses wrote the system of rites and ceremonies celebrating the Appointed Times (Moedim) Feasts of YHVH and long before there was a Levitical Priesthood. Abram gave tithes of all to a different priesthood ,the Melchizedek Priesthood. Genesis14:18-20 "Then Melchizeded king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High. And he blessed him and said 'Blessed be Abram of God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth; And blessed be God Most High, Who has delivered your enemies into your hand.' AND HE GAVE HIM A TITHE OF ALL." Jacob who also lived long before Moses's writings and the Levitical Priesthood also tithed. Genesis 28:22 "And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be God's house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You." We can therefore conclude God's plan of tithing preceded Moses law. To say we don't have to tithe because there isn't any Levitical Priesthood doesn't make sense to me since it existed before and I believe still exists as a commandment. Jesus didn't abolish the plan of tithing . No He continued it. Matthew 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharasees, hypocrits! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin and have neglected the weighter matters of the law: justic and mercy and faith. "THESE YOU OUGHT TO HAVE DONE', without leaving the other undone." His plan today is that the tithe be used to support those who work solely in gospel ministry. I Corinthians 9:13-14 "Do you not know that those who minister of holy thing eat of the things of the temple, and 'THOSE WHO SERVE AT THE ALTAR PARTAKE OF THE OFFERINGS OF THE ALTAR.' Some people may say 'I don't tithe because I don't like the way my church is using God's money. When you tithe you are really tithing to God.' Hebrews 7:8 "Here mortal men receive tithes, but there He receives them, , of whom it is witnessed that He lives. EVEN LEVI, WHO RECEIVES TITHES , PAID TITHES THROUGH ABRAHAM, SO TO SPEAK, FOR HE WAS STILL IN THE LOINS OF HIS FATHER WHEN MELCHIZEDEK MET HIM." If you tithe God will bless you more than you can receive. Malachi 3:10 " Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, That there may be food in My house, And try Me now in this," Says the LORD of hosts, If I will not open for you the windows of heaven AND POUR OUT FOR YOU SUCH BLESSING THAT THERE WILL NOT BE ROOM ENOUGH TO RECEIVE IT." If you do not tithe you are breaking one of the Ten Commandments. "Thou shalt not steal." Malachi 3:8 " Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed Me! But you say, In what way have we robbed You? 'IN TITHES AND OFFERINGS." If you rob God you won't inherit the Kingdom of god. I Corinthians 6:9-10 "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 'NOR THIEVES", norcovetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the Kingdom of God.'  |
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jun 30, 2004 17:48:54 GMT -8
Curt,
I agree, we should practice tithing. But, to make a point...did Yeshua's disciples tithe to Him?
Reuel
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Angel
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"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge..." Hosea 4:6
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Post by Angel on Jun 30, 2004 18:16:21 GMT -8
did Yeshua's disciples tithe to Him? Hmmm... good question, Reuel... but I would think that since His disciples did not fully understand the "G-dness" of Yeshua while He lived among them, I would think they tithed to the temple or to their local synogogue. But, this is just my humble opinion... |
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Curt
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Post by Curt on Jun 30, 2004 18:32:43 GMT -8
Reuel, Ultimately Jesus disciples did tithe to Jesus because of Hebrews 7:8. Even when Abram and Jacob gave tithes to Melchizedek, even when the disciples gave tithes to the Levitical Priesthood, and even today when we give tithes to our church we are ultimately giving tithes to Jesus. Hebrews 7:8 "Here mortal men receive tithes, but their He receives them, of whom it is witnessed that He lives." It may trouble some people today where or who to give their tithes to. The tithes should be brought into the storehouse which is His house which means His temple or His church. Malachi 3:10 "Bring all the tithes into the STOREHOUSE, That there may be food in MY HOUSE......." |
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jul 1, 2004 17:30:16 GMT -8
Ahhh. Very good...it is always unto our master Shalom brother, Reuel |
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Post by LovingNeighbor on Jul 2, 2004 10:53:15 GMT -8
Shalom all, Well I have a different view, I see the levitical tithe and the tabernacle tithe that was basically used for us to rejoice before YHWH for all he gives to us. The levites got their portian from the tribes because they were in charge fo the temple and did not go out and farm and such as the others. I think the ones who robbed YHWH are the churches, because they take from people and are not holy and may not be teaching the Father's will. Not anyone could be a preist in the and the punishments on those who misused the things of the tabernacle and broke his commandments was severe, so I don't think we can say anyone who opens a church is worthy of his tithing, Besides where is the temple now? in us and so if you tithe fr tabernacles are we not also enjoying the increase before YHWH and growing in fear to follow him. Deu 12:8 Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes. Deu 12:9 For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the LORD your God giveth you. Deu 12:10 But when ye go over Jordan, and dwell in the land which the LORD your God giveth you to inherit, and when he giveth you rest from all your enemies round about, so that ye dwell in safety; Deu 12:11 Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD: Deu 12:12 And ye shall rejoice before the LORD your God, ye, and your sons, and your daughters, and your menservants, and your maidservants, and the Levite that is within your gates; forasmuch as he hath no part nor inheritance with you. Deu 12:13 Take heed to thyself that thou offer not thy burnt offerings in every place that thou seest: Deu 12:14 But in the place which the LORD shall choose in one of thy tribes, there thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, and there thou shalt do all that I command thee. Here he says when the tithes will be happening, in the millinium, the rest, and then the preists shall have them and we were not to offer them just anywhere we chose. THis sets a model for us, and since there is no priesthood now and we have not come into the land he promissed us, I think that the remaining tithe is the tabernacle tithe, but if a man wants to give to a church just give them a freewill offering, then your not causing them also to be guilty of misusing what is the Fathers as it was a freewill gift from you. But when you say it is the Levitical Tithe you put the responsibility on you and them in a way that can't be fulfilled. Just my thoughts, the Churches have been robbing people for years and feeding them nothing in return, that is stealing.The levitical tithe can't be done without levites. but the main tithe was for us to enjoy and rejoice at what the Father has blessed us with. Shalom |
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jul 2, 2004 13:58:00 GMT -8
Amen Amen Shabbat Shalom brother! Reuel |
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Curt
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Post by Curt on Jul 6, 2004 18:27:50 GMT -8
Loving Neighbor, I do agree with some of what you say. LovingNeighbor: "think the ones who robbed YHWH are the churches, because they take from people and are not holy and may not be teaching the Father's will." Curt: Malachi 3:10 " Bring all the tithes into the STOREHOUSE, That there may be food in My HOUSE,....." The key words are that the storehouse must be My House. That means they must be teaching the Father's will. Even today God has a remnant of His people here on earth. Romans 11:5 "Even so then, at THIS PRESENT TIME there IS A REMNANT according to the election of grace." In today's world we have a remnant of those saints as spoken of in Revelation. Revelation 14:12 "Here is the patience of the SAINTS; here are THOSE WHO KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD and THE FAITH OF JESUS.' So you are correct we must be extremely careful who we tithe to because they may not be doing God's work. Tithes are used to do God's work of spreading the gospel. LovingNeighbor: " I see the levitical tithe and the tabernacle tithe that was basically used for us to rejoice before YHWH for all he gives to us." I see nothing wrong with that idea of rejoicing before YHWH but the tithe was used to do God's work. Although people may disagree about whether the Levitical Priesthood will be reinstituted in the future it can't be denied it doesn't exist today. God's work is still going on without that priesthood. But we do need to remember tithing existed before their was a Levitical Priesthood and exists after the Levitical Priesthood. Tithing is not dependent upon a Levitical Priesthood. Tithing is used to do God's work. LovingNeighbor; " Besides where is the temple now? in us and so if you tithe fr tabernacles are we not also enjoying the increase before YHWH and growing in fear to follow him." Curt: The temple is now in heaven where our High Priest Jesus is minister of the sanctuary and true tabernacle. Hebrews 8:1 "Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a HIGH PRIEST WHO IS SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE THRONE OF THE MAJESTY IN THE HEAVENS 2 A MINISTER OF 'THE SANCTUARY' AND OF THE TRUE TABERNACLE which the LORD ERECTED and not man." Hebrews 9:11 " But Christ came as HIGH PRIEST of the good things to come, WITH THE GREATER AND MORE PERFECT TABERNACLE not made with hands, that is not of this creation." The temple is not in us. Our bodies are the temple for the Holy Spirit . I Corinthians 6:19 " Or do you not know that YOUR BODY IS THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own." LovingNeighbor: "Here he says when the tithes will be happening, in the millinium, the rest, and then the preists shall have them and we were not to offer them just anywhere we chose." Curt: The verses you quoted in Deuteronomy are not speaking of the milleniun or the one-thousand year period. The verses are speaking of Joshua and Israelites crossing over the Jordan River into the Promised Land after their exodus from Egypt. The priests were not to offer the tithes just anywhere they chose but in God's house or where God chooses to make His name abide. It's the same today we must give our tithes where His name (or character) abides which is in His storehouse or His House. Malchi 3:10 " Bring all the tithes into THE STOREHOUSE, That their may be food in MY HOUSE." The nations the Israelites disspossed when they crossed the Jordan worshipped other gods and God did not want them to use the same sites to worship the true God. Deuteronomy 12: 2 " You shall utterly destroy all the places where the nations which you shall dispossess served their gods on the high mountains and on the hills and under every green tree.3 And you shall destroy their altars, break their sacred pillars, and burn their wooden images with fire; you shall cut down the carved images of their gods and destroy their names from that place. 4 You shall not worship the LORD your God with such things. 5 BUT YOU SHALL SEEK THE PLACE WHERE THE LORD YOUR GOD CHOOSES, out of all your tribes TO PUT HIS NAME FOR HIS DWELLING PLACE AND THEIR YOU SHALL GO." Loving Neighbor: " But when you say it is the Levitical Tithe you put the responsibility on you and them in a way that can't be fulfilled." Curt: It's not me that is calling it the Levitical tithe for God's present day people, it's you calling it such. I'm saying the tithe is not dependent upon a Levitcal Priesthood because the tithe existed before that priesthood. LovingNeighbor: " but if a man wants to give to a church just give them a freewill offering, then your not causing them also to be guilty of misusing what is the Fathers as it was a freewill gift from you" Curt: The freewill offering is given after and above the tithe. Any misusing of the tithe will cause those people to answer to God. Your only responsibility is to give the tithe to it's owner which is God. Leviticus 27:30 "And all the tithe of the land whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S. It is holy to the LORD." LovingNeighbor: " Just my thoughts, the Churches have been robbing people for years and feeding them nothing in return, that is stealing.The levitical tithe can't be done without levites. Curt Read the first seven sentences of my June 30th reply and you will see the tithe has already been done without the Levitical Priesthood. As far as some churches robbing people for years that is true. It is are responsibility to give it to God's church. It's more important that we don't break one of the Ten Commandments "Thou shalt not steal." Malachi 3:8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed Me! But you say, In what way have we robbed You? In tithes and offerings." |
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jul 6, 2004 23:58:46 GMT -8
Shalom Curt, You stated... Good point As long as we don't claim the verses that speak of the tithe in regards to the Levitical Priesthood...I don't see much of a problem. Although, when G'd reinstates the Temple, and it's Priesthood...it will be a different story. We shall see.... Shalom v'ahava achi, Reuel |
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(first five books of the Bible). Although, many evangelical teachers reject 
