Child Training

[Mark]

How are we to use the Scriptures as a tool for training and disciplining our children?

[vegangirl]

When we as parents model our life for our kids that could be a part of training them the way they should go. Living a Holy Godly life..

As for disciplining::: I don't agree with hitting kids any more, I have yelled at my kids and hit them before not bad, just one or two spanks ... but it hurts them a lot.. I will never do it again....

We should NEVER practice corporal punishment on our kids of any kind.. and I can't find any sanction in the teaching of Yeshua that says we should hit our kids???

Unless you become like a child," he said, "you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Its hard for me to imagine Yeshua wants us to hit our kids...

[Mark]

What do you do with verses like:

Whoever refuses to spank his son hates him, but whoever loves his son disciplines him from early on.
(Proverbs 13:24)

Foolishness is firmly attached to a child's heart. Spanking will remove it far from him.
(Proverbs 22:15)

Do not hesitate to discipline a child. If you spank him, he will not die. Spank him yourself, and you will save his soul from hell.
(Proverbs 23:13-14)

A spanking and a warning produce wisdom, but an undisciplined child disgraces his mother.
(Proverbs 29:15)

[nasah]

I recall being spanked as a child, but i also recall that it was well deserved and it didn't hurt as in pain, but hurt as in realization i've done wrong.

There are only two incident i recall as unjustified and i would not classify them as spanking, but as beating and another as unfair and cruel.

The one time was when my biological father beat my butt and bruised it because he was upset about my temper tantrum which had become common place because of the way he treated everyone in the family. I was simply frustrated and that was my only outlet.

The other time was when my mother went to slap me in the face and nearly scraped my eye out with her fingernail, as i stepped back to avoid the slap and she caught my eye instead causing it to burn intensely.

Aside from that i would not consider any spankings i got anything but proper discipline. Sometimes a child will not listen to reason, i have one that will and one that won't.

Aside from this sidetracking the thread a little i believe scriptures should be lived and explained at the right opportunity.

For example, one morning when God made clear to me what murder is aside from physically killing someone, i immediately turned around and thanks to God was able to use the things which happened a day before as an example of how my children were murderers by leading their sibling knowingly into sinful behavior.

It shocked them as much as it had me that Sabbath, but it was good.

Shalom,
nasah

[Mark]

My wife made a powerful statement yesterday as we were discussing this subject. She said, "If you know the difference between rape and making love, then you should be able to recognize the difference between child abuse and spanking."

Much more to come on this subject.

[vegangirl]

Thats the thing a lot of people don't recognize the difference between child abuse and spanking. So many kids are getting beat all the time. Even in the name of God.

So what do kids get a spank for? Not listening? because kids brains are not fully developed yet so they don't listen very well.
I don't know what would be so bad where a kid would need a spanking? I can't think of any thing.

clearly Mark you have pointed out from the Bible. I still can't bring myself to hit my kids ever.

If I ever get married again an if I have kids I won't hit them or yell at them ever!

However I will
reason,redirect, give them Positive Interaction.. With just talking and not yelling. I bet if every parent done this they would never have to give there kids a spank.

This is what I learned in college when I went to school for early childhood.

This does work.

[nasah]

I hear what you are saying, and i agree there may be a fine line. The scriptures tell us never to chastise/spank a child out of anger.

I don't buy this not listening very well because kid's brains are not fully developed. Most of times when children misbehave and the things they get a possible spanking for here is when they KNOWINGLY did something wrong.

Here is a NT scripture that backs up spanking in both cases:

Luk 12:47 And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating.
Luk 12:48 But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

I wonder where God thinks we are so bad as to deserve this???

You know, i can heartily agree with your choice not to spank, but i hope you're not going to look down on those that chose to implement this from time to time.
What is one to do with a child old enough to reason with, which won't listen to reason and rationale???

And regarding what sort of spanking is considered child abuse and what is lawful:

According to the law here you are to only spank a child on the butt, and it cannot leave a bruise. It can be red for several days, but if it is bruised then it was abuse. Hitting a child anywhere else is considered abuse also.

Shalom,
nasah

[vegangirl]

U don't have to agree with what I say.. I don't agree ..

U hope I don't look down on others for hitting theres? I hope u don't look down on me for not hitting my kids. it seems like u do.. kids are getting spanked out of anger these days that why CPS is so busy and full of cases these kids are getting put right back home... ITS so

If you're really talking about a Godly spanking with one or two spanks and thats it in a Godly way and prayer right after the Godly spanking... I guess it would be ok... I don't know..

But I have never seen this before I have seen kids getting spankings out of anger I have also seen many many videos on child abuse. Its so gross and sick it makes my heart just die because how can people be so mean...

[Mark]

We teach that there is a four step process to child discipline that is demonstrated throughout Scripture as Adonai deals with us as children, starting with Cain. It is most sussinctly articulated by Paul in 2nd Timothy 3:16:

That all Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Doctrine is the education of our children between what is right and wrong. It is the first step.

When they begin to head in the direction of disobedience, the next step is reproof. The reproof includes reminding them of the inevitable consequences should they choose to disobey.

Third, when they've set their little minds to rebellion regardless, we follow through with correction. That's the spanking part.

Finally, the process is not complete until the relationship is completely restored and the child is set on a positive course in the right direction: instruction in righteousness.

You can see this pattern clearly demonstrated in Isaiah 1.

If a child is spanked because he's gone beyond our tolerance level, then at best we are training him up in the nurture and admonition of us. This is against Scripture. We are to bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. This is why for every spanking offense, we need to be able to articulate clearly where the child has deviated from God's commands- not just because he or she has annoyed us personally.

I have messed this up over the course of the past fifteen years and nine children. I've no doubt I'll act out of selfish responses in the future; but there is a lot of power in sitting down and asking forgiveness for where I've messed up and disciplined in my own authority instead of disciplining in God's. It has a huge affect on how they interact with each other.

Also, be careful when simply using re-direction as a correctional tool. It will be interpretted as a means to get whatever we want simply by manipulation. This has a potential to cause a lot of heart-ache farther down the road.

[nasah]

Vegangirl,

first off what Mark has laid out is correct. This is the right way to go about it.
And this is how i handle things here. My children for example know that i will not tolerate lies.

If they lie i give them a chance to repent and confess but if after having been told asked and still not come forward they do get ONE smack on the butt for it, and then i again remind them of the scriptures.

I believe there's a huge difference between child abuse and good correction as laid forth by Mark here who articulated it really well.

Have i gone wrong a time or two, yes i have, but not because i intentionally was malicious desiring to inflict pain, but simply because i too am human and make mistakes.

Child abuse is heart breaking. I totally agree.


Let me tell you of something i once observed when i was pregnant and at a large dept store one day having no previous parenting experience.

I saw a mother whose child had stepped away from the cart and began to run off dashing in and out of clothing racks get a good spanking. All the other children with that woman were very well behaved and stayed with the mother.

In my unexperienced eyes that spanking seemed severe, and the cries of that child hurt my soul.

But when my child grew and did the same thing i realized why the mother had done this. That one good spanking that child received was in no way as bad as a child molester abducting that child could be. The child had received prior warnings, and disobeyed.

My children understand that i teach and train to protect and keep my children from harm. Those are the reasons those rules exist. When they get to feel the consequence of their rebellion on their butts they only receive a fraction of the pain it causes if i let them go and do whatever they wanted.
There comes a point however, where a parent just will have to let the child go and turn it over to their reprobate mind just as God does.

I hope you understand vegangirl. Don't think for one minute that i enjoyed any of the spankings my children ever received. There is a separation that needs to be fixed after that.

And no i don't look down on you for the decisions in your parenting style, not at all. I don't judge another man's servant.

Shalom,
nasah

[vegangirl]

Well if you would have read my first post I said I use to spank my kids and yell at them.. I just don't do it any more. I was like a Marine to them, thats how bad I would yell.. but things got done and it was great.. Then they had some fear also not to do it again.. They still do.. I just found a different way to handle things....



peace&love
Bri'gette

[nasah]

Bri'gette,

That's great, i don't like yelling either, and neither do i care for spanking excessively.
Would you mind telling me what you found that works now?

I'm always willing to learn and try different approaches to things. Perhaps i might learn something useful.

Thanks.
Shalom,
nasah

[vegangirl]

My son is 13 and my daugthter is 15 and taking stuff away works.
I have very good teens.
My kids, I think they are scared of my voice when I am upset so when I do get upset they start getting it together...

They still remember me saying sorry's no good enough, I use to not be a nice person when I was mad or upset.. I am still a single parent an I did what I had to do...
My kids don't hang out on the streets there hair is not colored they don't date my daughter dresses in a holiness matter so does my son.. I think when they were younger I instill fear in them..
I do let them get away with a little more but thats only with playing video games maybe a movie and thats a maybe because we don't have a TV we just have a dvd on the computer..

So taking stuff away, can't go to a friends house, no games, Oh yeah I have another one .. My son had to count out 100 pieces of rice out of a bowl with some tweezers one at a time.. Oh my, he said I was mean lol and I was.. but it worked..

My daughter had to write 2 pages in the dictionary this was the worse for her she was crying for 4hours until I got off work.. This just happen to. When my kids don't listen they do get trouble I just don't spank them..

I hope this helps... If not sorry : (

[Mark]

This is going to come off a little terse; but are you suggesting that your wisdom and experience stands as a viable alternative to the practical teaching of Scripture?

[vegangirl]

nasah, asked me what I find that works now.. So I told her ..

I don't know Mark..