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Post by vegangirl on Jul 17, 2008 18:29:28 GMT -8
Holiness. How should a women dress in church and out of church. Should we wear make-up? Should we only wear long dresses or skirts and no pants? Should we not cut our hair?
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Post by Mark on Jul 18, 2008 3:56:15 GMT -8
While I would discourage the use of Eugene Petersen's, "The Message" for any deep study, I think he rather captures the essence of 1st Timothy 2:8-10. Since prayer is at the bottom of all this, what I want mostly is for men to pray--not shaking angry fists at enemies but raising holy hands to God. And I want women to get in there with the men in humility before God, not primping before a mirror or chasing the latest fashions but doing something beautiful for God and becoming beautiful doing it. (1 Timothy 2:8-10) I include verse 8 (describing what the men are to be doing because of a key phrase, "ho-so-tose" which is translated into King Jamesese, "in like manner". This qualifies the laundry-list toward women of modest apparel, adee-oce (translated "  -facedness, self-controlled, or discreet), not with briads, pearls or expensive clothing in comparison to the men lifting holy hands without wrath (passion) or "dia-logos" (channels of words). The emphasis is that you come to worship God, not to demonstrate something about yourself, nor draw undue attention to yourrself. This means, in the context of our your question, if wearing a dress causes everyone to notice you, you should wear pants. If you feel vulnerable and that everyone is looking at you if you don't wear make-up, you should do what is reasonable. The key is that we come together with the intent of making Adonai the focus of our attention. We should not do anything, if a man, typically by our conduct or if a woman typically by our dress, for the purpose of drawing attention to ourselves. |
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Post by vegangirl on Jul 18, 2008 14:00:23 GMT -8
Why don't churches teach Holiness for women? besides the pentecostal churches. I think its so important to teach this. I have modeled for my daughter in my life style and my standards in so many ways. Holiness is a big part of salavation I believe. I wear hippy or old fashion dresses or shirts always long... Work-out clothes I wear at work because I am a trainer in a all womens fitness club. So no men see me, it works out great! After a person gets saved all things change,. Churches should be teaching Holiness how will people know? When I dress Holy and live a Holy life with out the world in it, I feel Holy its a wonderful feeling it really is. I am really not talking about me anyways I am just saying in general should churches teach holiness?  |
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droeh
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Post by droeh on Jul 25, 2008 11:43:21 GMT -8
Why don't churches teach Holiness for women? besides the pentecostal churches. I think its so important to teach this. I have modeled for my daughter in my life style and my standards in so many ways. Holiness is a big part of salavation I believe. It sounds to me like you are really talking about modesty.  Holiness is much more than what you wear. It's about being different (which modesty certainly is in these days! ;D) but in our lives, our actions, our attitudes, how we react when someone cuts us off, how we treat someone who has wronged us on purpose, how we respond when we are shown something in scripture that we need to change. It's about surrending ourselves . . . I liked the idea that you dress so as not to attract attention. If someone wore a dress and makeup in our congregation, which deals with a lot of street people, it would attract attention. I don't think people should dress down - but . . . |
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Post by vegangirl on Aug 1, 2008 15:44:59 GMT -8
I agree with every thing u said... I don't think people should dress down for church either.. Theres nothing wrong with dressing up... and looking Holy! ya know ... Holiness women are the most beautiful women on this earth and if there really right with GOD. You may even beable to see Jesus in there eyes... I believe holiness women have power in Gods eyes.. WOMEN ROCK! We are so needed.. God needs Holiness women in his kingdom, ones that have those Jesus eyes... Ones who act like daughters of Adoni... like u said how we dress and act , how we respond... everything we do should be for Adoni we should be at his feet on our faces everytime... Peace&love.. bri'gette |
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Post by Velvela on Aug 28, 2008 8:27:11 GMT -8
I hope I am not doing wrong by responding to this older thread.
But, Bri'gette, I think it is wonderful that you are putting thought into the question of What is Modesty?
Here are my thoughts:
I love the fact that my body is not for public consumption. Strangers cannot accurately guess what it looks like, because I always wear free-flowing clothes. Growing up by the sea, I went to the beach and swam, but always well-covered in long linen overshirts that would not cling when wet. I have absolutely no hang-ups about my body, not even at my older and gravity-aware age: in a way, I think that forever hiding it has actually helped that feeling, for I have not been judged - I hope your daughter has/will have the same self-assurance.
I do not cut my hair: I love it being long and womanly. I do usually cover it when I go out. Except when I attend a local congregation where no other woman covers her hair. I fear that if I wore a head covering there, it would look as if I was trying to appear 'holier than the rest'. Which would feel awful. So I just tie it back instead.
I never wear make-up. I am not dissatisfied about the way G-d and my parents made me. I don't need to 'improve' on the natural me; and I don't think I could justify the expense, either. (Says she who can fully justify the expense of yet another book .... or computer game!)
None of the above stops me from being a selfish, self-centred show-off, nor stops me from lacking humility, forgiveness, patience, or even good manners.
Should congregations teach modesty/holiness? Maybe it is too easy to observe some outward behaviours. It is a change on the inside I need far more. G-d is working on it, through the Ru'ach HaKodesh. But that is a bigger job for Him than prompting me to buy a long skirt........
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Post by vegangirl on Aug 28, 2008 14:19:59 GMT -8
Velvela:
I believe that if you're heart is right then the rest of us should be right ..
Inside and outside God works on both not just one.
I do wear some make-up eyeliner, and powder , chap stick its not a lot at all can't even tell its there but I just like it anyways.
I am a trainer so I do wear workout pants at work only, its a all women fitness club.
I have a lot of hang-ups about my body.. because I have gained weight off and on for so many years,. working out hard and getting a great body lifting weights a lot then going to not working out at all.. things happen to the body an I can lose 20lbs then gain it right back in 3 months.. It really sucks! I would rather not be a trainer any more. I am praying for a new better job where I don't have to look perfect .. It can be streeful.
My daughter has the same self-assurance shes wonderful..I am always telling her shes wonderful, an I buy her clothes and they are in style and modest. I believe God wants us to be Holy for him...
My daughter an I don't cut our hair, Its our covering for Adoni.
It don't bother me if some one thingks I look different... U used holier then the rest, I DO nothing for man.. Everything I do is for Adoni hes the only one that will save my soul..
Thats a big reason I left the Pentecostal church I have seen that some people do what the Pastor does and not what God put in there hearts. How can that be we are living and loving the living God,. We can't serve two masters.
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Post by Prodigal Girl on Aug 28, 2008 18:04:12 GMT -8
Hi vegangirl, You are absolutely right about the modesty. There is something so completely wrong with the way many of the evangelical megachurch women dress in many cases. Short skirts, breasts exposed, shorts, etc. Modesty is usually never discussed or taught, because an incorrect interpretation if scriptures about not judging others means they don't teach right living very much.  . Because the rest of the world looks at these American women and thinks that those who follow Christ are like that; they dress like prostitutes dress in many countries. The essence of what you were taught in the Mormon church was righter that those churches about that issue. Not that you have to dress exactly like you were taught there, but certainly the modesty that you learned is very right. Those who follow the Lord should be known for their modesty. |
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Post by vegangirl on Aug 28, 2008 18:37:01 GMT -8
Prodigal Girl: I really learned about modesty in the Pentcostal churches. The LDS does teach modesty some what.. but nothing like the Pentecostal churches do.. I can see people judging people also... it's  Ya know something else about the LDS church they use to teach holiness a long time ago, but I think now its about how many people u bring in.. because the LDS boys that would give us bible studies are back home now after 2 years.. and they don't listen to what they told us to do.. I know they are on face book and they seem very different : ( its like we never even new them... My kids an I really loved them very much. They needed to come in our lifes at that time. All I can do is be there for them if they ever need me... and something even wonderful is that not many people leave the Mormon church because they just don't believe what they teach.. and this is why we left... not because of the rules... the rules are great but I was doing most of them anyways... So it was not hard. just believing what they teach was really hard.. Now a new chapter in my life has started Ok I must go home now peace&love... bri'gette.. |
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Post by Prodigal Girl on Aug 29, 2008 6:01:49 GMT -8
Hi bri'gette,
Well we will all have to pray for those LDS boys. It sounds like they just need to come to Yeshua. It sounds like they are confused and in rebellion; all things that most people have gone through at one time or another (I know I have). You are right, they need love. As my dad always said, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I am sure that all was not bad; retain what was good of what you were taught there. More than anything, through everything I have come to the conclusion that we have to trust our Lord above all else; it is shaky ground to trust too much in any particular congregation or leader.
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Post by lawrenceofisrael on Nov 15, 2008 13:34:30 GMT -8
A good question. The Woman is surely a wonderful creation of God the almigthy and we men are in so many aspects far weaker than you.
There´s one thing every woman who goes out on the streets or is in front of strangers ( people neither married to her nor relatives ). Her body belongs to her and not to others. Yeshua instructs men to not even glance with lust at a women but even worse than this sin and others are those who mislead to sin.
You women are to protect us men from sin by dressing modestly ( the same is obligatory for the men ) meaning long skirts and long sleeves and not showing parts of your body.
Staying with the women it is also due for those women who are favoured by God to not wear any gold or silver or very expensive clothes and certainly not men´s dress.
I think women are much more beautiful without all that and make up. And the most beautiful women is the one who dresses modestly because she will not be judged based on her beauty but based on her heart and´ll find a husband who really loves her for what she is.
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veggirl
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Post by veggirl on Dec 9, 2008 22:05:51 GMT -8
I agree with you lawrenceofisrael,
peace&love
bri'gette
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Post by bryce on Jul 11, 2009 9:10:49 GMT -8
A woman can behave in a modest manner and have her cleavage showing, but that doesn't make the fact that she's dressed in an alluring way any more acceptable. It truly amazes me how many sincere Christian women think that immodest dress is okay.
I spent a lot of time in Jerusalem on my visit there. While I was there I saw many religious women from various Orthodox sects who dressed modestly in different ways. They all wore long skirts, sleeves and had necklines that hugged their neck, but some were in suit-dresses and others in flowing light materials with pretty colours. And, all the married women had their head covered. I can honestly say that I did not have to battle with lustful thoughts when looking at these women - many of whom were very beautiful and had shapely figures. The same can be said for the time I spent working in a very Mennonite community last Fall.
These women were not wearing alluring clothes. But, when I look at women who aren't Orthodox Jews or Mennonite I usually have to wrestle control of my thoughts a lot more. Do the women who profess love for Him realise that they are tempting their brothers with their immodest dress? They might act in a very modest way, but their V-necks that show cleavage when they bend over and slacks that show off their buttocks and thighs - those things are not modest.
We are bombarded by immodest dress in most of our North American culture. We're so used to skimpy clothing that we think it's somewhat normal.
This is another topic that we can probably look to Jewish tradition for guidance on. What do you think that Paul had in mind when he told women to dress modestly? Remember, he was a Pharisee and living in First Century Israel. I'm sure that women were much more modestly dressed in those days. A man walking down the streets of modern Jerusalem would probably be shocked by our modern standards of modesty.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 17:22:38 GMT -8
I believe that holiness is not just an outward appearance. It is a heart matter. Keeping oneself holy and from sin before a Holy God and not being part of the world or talking like the world. Also respecting a Holy God is also part of holiness. Why is it that we all think that holiness is an outward thing? In my thinking it is both but more the heart then anything.
Moriah Ruth
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Post by alon on Jan 25, 2014 20:09:19 GMT -8
I believe that holiness is not just an outward appearance. It is a heart matter. Keeping oneself holy and from sin before a Holy God and not being part of the world or talking like the world. Also respecting a Holy God is also part of holiness. Why is it that we all think that holiness is an outward thing? In my thinking it is both but more the heart then anything. Moriah Ruth  You are exactly right! Holiness is "set apartness." How can we be set apart from the world if we all look and act like the world? Women do not have to dress down/ugly up to be set apart. But dressing to attract men's attention (not that difficult to do either) is putting yourself before H'Shem. That is idolatry- on both our parts! At the Messianic class I attend, the women are very modestly dressed, but still look like what they are- the crowning glory of Elohim's creation! Modesty has its own beauty and allure without being an affront to H'Shem or a snare to men. On the other hand, our men's group at the AoG church I attend is in agreement that the worst place for temptation as far as ogling women is the sanctuary on Sunday morning! How is any man supposed to worship when everywhere he looks, including the Praise Team up front, women are immodestly dressed, painted up, powdered up, skirt-lines up and the only thing down is necklines! It takes all our concentration NOT to lust, which leaves nothing for God. And their focus is generally who's looking, not if the Almighty is looking on with displeasure!!! My opinion: both men and women should dress nice, like we are going to visit someone special. But men should dress like men and women like women- and both should be modestly attired. I don't need a thousand dollar suit. If I had that much, I'd be better served to send 900 to Israeli relief and missions. Women don't need to show everything they have. I know you are all beautiful; and as Ruth points out beauty is more than physical. Just one man's opinion ... Dan C |
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-facedness, self-controlled, or discreet), not with briads, pearls or expensive clothing in comparison to the men lifting holy hands without wrath (passion) or "dia-logos" (channels of words). The emphasis is that you come to worship God, not to demonstrate something about yourself, nor draw undue attention to yourrself. This means, in the context of our your question, if wearing a dress causes everyone to notice you, you should wear pants. If you feel vulnerable and that everyone is looking at you if you don't wear make-up, you should do what is reasonable. The key is that we come together with the intent of making Adonai the focus of our attention. We should not do anything, if a man, typically by our conduct or if a woman typically by our dress, for the purpose of drawing attention to ourselves.
. Because the rest of the world looks at these American women and thinks that those who follow Christ are like that; they dress like prostitutes dress in many countries. 
- there are 70 faces to 
