ALWAYS give to ALL beggars?

[Ely]

Hey guys,

This is an issue that has long been a tough one for me and my brethren to deal with. Yeshua seems to teach his talmidim in Matthew 5 and Luke 6 (I think) that if anyone asks us for anything, we should give it to them.

It has always seemed incongruous to ALWAYS give beggars whatever they ask for. For example, a known crack-head (we get them where I live) approaches me and asks for some money, am I commanded by Moshiach to give him whatever he asks for whenever he asks for it?

How do you guys deal with this? Having been opened up to YHWH's , is there anything in there that would influence our actions in such cases?

Any feedback would be really appreciated.

[Mark]

I think a good story here is when Messiah found the man at the Pool of Bethesda who would ask that he be let into the pool of the One who was able to give him new life. It is not unlike the lame man at the Temple gate who asked of Peter and John a coin, when they were able to offer him wholeness. When someone asks of you a coin, which is the better gift, to fish in your pocket and toss him a quarter or to sit down with him for five minutes, offer him dignity and find out who he really is? Many people, specially over time, resort to asking what they expect they might receive, having long since given up on what they really need.

Don't throw your money away; but it is a sin to pass by one who is crying for help. Many times, meeting a need is not the same as giving someone what they are asking for.

[Nachshon]

mark said:

I think a good story here is when Messiah found the man at the Pool of Bethesda who would ask that he be let into the pool of the One who was able to give him new life. It is not unlike the lame man at the Temple gate who asked of Peter and John a coin, when they were able to offer him wholeness. When someone asks of you a coin, which is the better gift, to fish in your pocket and toss him a quarter or to sit down with him for five minutes, offer him dignity and find out who he really is? Many people, specially over time, resort to asking what they expect they might receive, having long since given up on what they really need.

Don't throw your money away; but it is a sin to pass by one who is crying for help. Many times, meeting a need is not the same as giving someone what they are asking for.

Exactly. In the seven levels of tz'daka (charity) giving someone a job is considered the highest form. Giving tz'daka isn't always about throwing money at a problem. In fact, that's really not what tz'daka is all about, in my opinion.

[Ely]

Good stuff.

Thanks

[YHVHSFOOL]

Having been in the position in the past of being the one who was in the postion of need and abuse I will comment from both sides.
Yeshua's statment is very clear to give to all that ask of you. Mark is right that not always what they ask for is what they need, but from both of his examples there is more to the verse.Peter and John had no coin, but gave what they did have. Yeshua had no need to put the man in the water as He was the living water.
Sometimes we have no coin when asked, but the more important question is not whether we give when we do (that should be the easy part), but what we give when we don't.
We are all just stewards of God's property. Whether it is property or money the Earth is the Masters and the fullness thereof. God gives food, shelter and clothing to the evil as well as the good. It is His mercy and Grace. Are we to show any less. The Father says the poor are His and gives us many examples to show that we do not always understand why He puts certain of those individuals into those straits.
When you give what is YHVH's in His Name it is His responsibility how the receiver will use those resources and whether it will bring a blessing or curse to them.
As one who learned of the provision and mercy of God through help from others when in times of desperation. It is a good reminder that we are the hands and mouth of YHVH and a simple word and coin can be a seed that later may grow into another truly saved soul.
On a similar note as one who has come out of "christianity" and know all the psychobable talk of "enabling". James said it is evil to say "God bless, go and be full" and give nothing when you have something.

[Mark]

Life would be so much less complicated if we could say, "whenever you see this, do such and such." It's not the case, however. Acts 3, when Peter and John healed the lame man is a perfect example. This is a man who had been brought to the Temple gate daily since he was old enough to need alms (no longer under the care of his parents). How many times had Messiah Yeshua passed by him and not healed him?

There is certainly more to this than what we make out of it in our carnal pushabutton pullastring theology. The answer lies in walking in daily relationship with Adonai, atuned to the guidance of the Holy Spirit (according to ). Is it a sin not to help someone who has a need if you are able to grant it? Yeshua Messiah did not heal everyone.

The fact is that we have to work at obedience and listen for instruction from Adonai. He has not left us on auto-pilot to govern ourselves as though He were not able to work through us. He desires (demands) intimate relationship as part of our obedience.

[YHVHSFOOL]

Scripture is clear that a relationship with YHVH is foremost in walking in the Spirit. That walk is guided by . is the physical manifistation of Spiritual Law and YHVH's oral word. The Spirit of YHVH will not instuct or guide in violation to .

Healing does not fall into the same catagory as food, clothing and shelter. is already clear on these as was Yeshua.

To look at a man or woman classified here as A Begger and deny them those basic things is to deny . It is to assume that that person has disqualified themselves from God's mercy somehow. If fear that the money you are going to give them will be used for something else, then give food, clothing or shelter.

Within the early church there was a commonality of goods. As they understood God's ownership of all things. They helped each other as they saw needs. There were further instruction given to discourage "believers" from sponging off of others. If a man won't work don't feed him. However, these were rules for those who were living inside the community. Yeshua told us to remember just as our forefathers were taken care of by Egypt we are to help those that sojurn in our territories.

How do we know when we see a person begging that it would not be helping one of Yeshua's in His name. It will be better in the judgement to have blessed the enemy than to neglect one of YHVH's. Don't forget some of them may have been angels that have been passed by.

[Mark]

Why does healing not fall into the same catagory as food clothing and shelter? Is one not as much a gift from Adonai as another?

And when does it end? If I give a quarter or a dollar, have I performed my duty? It is not my intention to be argumentative; and, honestly, we agree more than we disagree on this issue. Yet, at the same time, when you are in a position of leadership in a small religious community, you become a specific target for those who go around seeking help. Of course, everyone is targeted to some degree: is the Shriner's Hospital, the Association of Disabled Veterans, Compassion International or World Vision any less worthy of our financial assistance than the fellow on the street corner? If I gave even a dollar to everone who asked, every time they asked, I would not be able to provide for the needs of my own family (who live well beneath the federal standard level defining poverty). The truth is, for every dollar I give to one person, I am denying to someone else. There needs to be more discretion and more compassion than just tossing money at someone because they asked for it. commands that one third of your tithe (more specifically) the tithe of the third year be given to the poor. On top of that, yearly, the poor are to be "remembered" in your financial worship. I don't believe this command is to be rendered on a "first come first serve" basis.

Here's what I would suggest. First, particularly in this season as it is getting a little colder, when you see the fellow begging alms, first buy two cups of coffee (or cocoa or whatever) and sit down and share it with him. Find out who he is. There may be ways that you can minister to him far better than you could have with the loose change in your pocket. Don't preach to him. Listen to him and pray for him. Treat him with dignity, even if you discern that he is just trying to pull a con. Allow the Spirit of Adonai to direct you in this individual's life. You may well go home and wake up that evening with very clear and specific instruction as to how you are to minister to this person. You may even more likely find that Adonai has spoken to you about changes you need to make in your own life through this person (though dirty and godless he may be).

We justify turning our hearts away from those seeking help in many ways and for many reasons. We are jaded against those in our community who have made consistently bad decisions and leech off of us as a result. We are offended by those who choose to capitalize on our willingness to give as opposed to enter in to become a viable and contributing member of society. I guarantee that with each of these conclusions, there is not a single name and circumstance that can be offered as justificable evidence. Each of these statements are the product of our hypocrisy and prejudice against those who don't "fit in" as we believe they should. I am as guilty of passing them by and turning them away as the next guy. Yet, when I don't have time, I really don't. And when I say I don't have any cash, I really don't (and they don't take VISA). Yet, when such opportunities truly present themselves, I must find the courage and the compassion to recognize these individuals as having been placed in this same moment as me so that Adonai can be glorified through both of our lives.

[Mark]

see thread

theloveofgod.proboards3.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=testimony&thread=1258&page=1

[skeeterbugs]

It is one thing if someone is hungry but I refuse to contribute to their drug or booze habit. some beggers are too lazy to help themselves. I have panhandlers stand in clean new clothes and beg. once I had a man beg me for money and so I bought him a meal instead, there is other ways to help people other than handing money to them

[Mark]

Hi Skeeterbugs, and welcome to the forum! I really appreciate your position; but consider this story for a minute:

Now the sons of Eli were sons of Belial; they knew not the LORD. And the priests' custom with the people was, that, when any man offered sacrifice, the priest's servant came, while the flesh was in seething, with a fleshhook of three teeth in his hand; And he struck it into the pan, or kettle, or caldron, or pot; all that the fleshhook brought up the priest took for himself. So they did in Shiloh unto all the Israelites that came thither. Also before they burnt the fat, the priest's servant came, and said to the man that sacrificed, Give flesh to roast for the priest; for he will not have sodden flesh of thee, but raw. And if any man said unto him, Let them not fail to burn the fat presently, and then take as much as thy soul desireth; then he would answer him, Nay; but thou shalt give it me now: and if not, I will take it by force.
(1 Samuel 2:12-16)


Does the improper use of our sacrifice of worship negate our responsibility to offer such worship to God>

[skeeterbugs]

What I am trying to say is you can help people in other ways by referring them to agencies that can help. buying them a meal. I knew a guy who was a begger and on some days he brought in over 900 dollars. A person cannot give to everyone who asks because people do abuse it. I for one do not want to support a drug habit or alcohol habit. I have seen some beggers say they can make more panhandling than they can by getting a job.

[Nashdude]

Thing is, as a follower of Christ, you're not giving for the beggar's sake. You're giving for HIS sake. While I agree with you on a personal level, on a spiritual level I'd have to disagree slightly. All that God is concerned with is that you did your part. What the beggar does with your assistance is on him, not on you.

Kinda reminds me of an exchange Peter had with Jesus...

John 21:20-22 -- Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

Translation a la Nash: What this disciple does is none of your concern. His walk is between Me and him---it don't involved you. You let ME worry about that disciple. You have only ONE concern, and that's to follow me.

Be concerned for the beggar. Be concerned for the way he uses your generosity. Give him food instead of money, if it makes you feel better. But ultimately, his acceptance or abuses are none of your concern. They are between him and God. All YOU are accountable for is the opportunity to show him the love of God---even when it means giving money---and that's something your personal distaste for his lifestyle and choices should not stand in the way of.

[vegangirl]

Very good Nashdude:
I like what u said...

I do give more money to women beggars more then men beggars... for some reason I am always thinking men can work...women are to be taken care of..
but like u said its none of our concern
We can do our part and let God do the rest.

and beggars are not just people that hold signs I don't think... They are people that get any kind of help from the state the government.. With food, housing... right?

Peace&love : )

[lawrenceofisrael]

There´s a good Proverb a teacher of mine one´s told me. Give a hungry person a fish and he´ll be helped for a day. Give him a fishing rod and he can help himself all of his lifetime.
Shaul our Apostle (may the Lord remember him) once commanded the poor believers to get jobs so that they could also help other poor people.
It´s a difference to give a beggar just because he asks for something and one is embarrassed to not give and to give with a joyful heart with the goal to really help.
Surely sometimes direct help is essential. If we see areas with imminent or momentary need such as Congo right