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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Oct 20, 2005 16:38:37 GMT -8
I believe there is much confusion surrounding the book of Hebrews especially in places like chapter nine. There is a difference between adding better promises (just as all the addition of the covenants have) and doing away with part of a covenant. I would suggest the language found in the book of Hebrews speaks to the former. One may get a clearer picture of this by reading the following thread: theloveofgod.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=messianic&action=display&n=1&thread=65Shalom, Reuel |
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Post by NaildWithHim on Nov 5, 2005 11:23:04 GMT -8
Hi Reuel, If I'm misunderstanding the Covenants please enlighten me. I have a few simple questions for you. #1. Is Yeshua HaMoshiach the High Priest of the New Covenant? #2. Is the Levitical Priesthood a valid form of Priestly function within the New Covenant? #3. If you answered yes to #2, how do the two Priesthoods coexist within the New Covenant? #4. If the Levitical Priesthood is vital for atonement (For it is the High Priest who enters within the veil once a year) then how is atonement possible without a Levitical High Priest, and no Temple? Also, like I asked Pioneer, show me in the  where it says Yeshua is a High Priest after the order of Melchisidek. Or even that HaMoshiach would come after this order? You can't, because it's not there. Shaul recieved this revelation straight from HaMoshiach. There are things in the New Covenant writings that are NOT in . Does this mean we should reject them? Shalom Naild |
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Post by Pioneer on Nov 5, 2005 18:22:05 GMT -8
Hi Reuel, If I'm misunderstanding the Covenants please enlighten me. I have a few simple questions for you. #1. Is Yeshua HaMoshiach the High Priest of the New Covenant? #2. Is the Levitical Priesthood a valid form of Priestly function within the New Covenant? #3. If you answered yes to #2, how do the two Priesthoods coexist within the New Covenant? #4. If the Levitical Priesthood is vital for atonement (For it is the High Priest who enters within the veil once a year) then how is atonement possible without a Levitical High Priest, and no Temple? Also, like I asked Pioneer, show me in the where it says Yeshua is a High Priest after the order of Melchisidek. Or even that HaMoshiach would come after this order? You can't, because it's not there. Shaul recieved this revelation straight from HaMoshiach. There are things in the New Covenant writings that are NOT in . Does this mean we should reject them? Shalom Naild By what stretch do you attribute Hebrews to Sha'ul? No scholar that I know of can say diffinitively that Sha'ul had anything to do with the writing of this book. Yeshua is made High Priest on the order of Malki-Tzedek. A Priest forever. Rank higher than Aaronic Preisthood. As Hebrews 7:9 points out that Levi via Abraham paid a tenth to Malki-Tzedek. Yeshua is "Eternal" the same as the Father. Tell me if you know was Malki-Tzedek, Yeshua? Is that a possibility? How could you know? Ps. 110:4 Adonai has sworn it and he will never retract "You are a Cohen forever, to be compared to Malki-Tzedek. Yeah, that is in the Book of the Hebrews, isn't it? I will say again, God said He does not Change. He doesn't change, He knew the END from the Beginning. Shalom |
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Post by NaildWithHim on Nov 5, 2005 19:53:26 GMT -8
Okay, substitute the name Paul with "The author of Hebrews." Not sure what your point on authorship was anyway?
How do I know Melkisedek wasn't Yeshua? Because the Scriptures don't say that now do they? Did Yeshua have have a father or mother? Yep!
Your Psalm quote doesn't quite cut it either. It does not identify Yeshua specificaly in that Psalm. However, it does in Hebrews. Your beating the air my friend.
Shalom
Naild
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Post by Pioneer on Nov 6, 2005 9:00:04 GMT -8
Okay, substitute the name Paul with "The author of Hebrews." Not sure what your point on authorship was anyway? To tell the truth! An inuendo or half truth left unchalenged may represent fact by default. Your Psalm quote doesn't quite cut it either. It does not identify Yeshua specificaly in that Psalm. However, it does in Hebrews. Your beating the air my friend. Shalom Naild Nit picker! Who else was it said by Adonai You are a preist forever after the order of Malchi Tzedek. After you are made aware of a magicians trick, it holds no wonder! Where was the book of Hebrews when Acts 2:41 produced 3000 salvations? I love the NT, but this is where many false beliefs crept into Christianity. i. e. immortal soul. I think I hear you wanting to justify your contention that God changed, plan B. God made NO, Nada, Zilch, Zero mistake. For me, since John revealed the Word of God as Yeshua, every place in the Tanack where the word of the Lord or God is stated my mind changes that to Yeshua. Ge 15:1 After these things Yeshua came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward. 1Sa 3:7 Now Samuel did not yet know the LORD, neither was Yeshua yet revealed unto him. Yeah! I wouldn't have this benefit without John and Paul and their kabbalah. And no, I am not recomending this for bible study. |
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Post by NaildWithHim on Nov 6, 2005 10:30:38 GMT -8
Finally! We have a breakthrough. That is my whole point Bob. There are new 'revelations' ie-revealings, in the New Covenant. Things that were kept secret since the world began. I do NOT promote G-d switching to any "plan b". Those are your words not mine.
Why you went into the Salvation speil I don't know. I wasn't even referring to that. In fact, I said "Atonement" now didn't I?
I still don't understand why you would attribute "Greek thinking" to Paul just because he used that language to write to the Gentile Congregations he planted. I can have a "Hebrew mindset" and write a letter to you in Spanish if you like? LOL
Shalom
Naild
BTW- Why don't you come back to STFA and moderate the Hebrew categories for me? I hope you know your still my friend, and I respect you Bob.
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Post by Pioneer on Nov 6, 2005 14:14:41 GMT -8
Finally! We have a breakthrough. That is my whole point Bob. There are new 'revelations' ie-revealings, in the New Covenant. Things that were kept secret since the world began. I do NOT promote G-d switching to any "plan b". Those are your words not mine. Why you went into the Salvation speil I don't know. I wasn't even referring to that. In fact, I said "Atonement" now didn't I? I still don't understand why you would attribute "Greek thinking" to Paul just because he used that language to write to the Gentile Congregations he planted. I can have a "Hebrew mindset" and write a letter to you in Spanish if you like? LOL Shalom Naild I had to do a double take on this one , it was deja vous all over again, I read almost this whole post on another forum. Who is wanting to convert to Hebrew, anything but the gospels? It seems to me you have your mind made up that there is no possibility that the gospels were ever penned in Hebrew. Hebrew mindset VS Greek mindset. Just how would any of the Talmidim have developed a Greek mindset? They all were Jews, familar with the temple and its worship, (raised with a Greek spoon in their mouths, I think not.) Each one of them with the possible exception of Luke/Silas, had a Yiddish Yomomma, spoke their native Hebrew language, kept the Sabbath and went to synogogue learned the of Moses, is their History book, math book and language book, their complete educational system, they kept the moedim, went up to the temple three times a year. Where would any of them develop a Greek mindset? God had to resort to a goad to get Paul and Peter to go to the Gentiles. I for one have never said Paul wrote in Hebrew, I agree with you on a letter to Spanish speakers, would be appropo to be in Spanish. On atonement, reconciled/restored/at one with God, isn't that Teshuvah, Mikvah and worship Him? How does this differ from salvation? Are we going to strive for words? Just one little aside, Biblical Hebrew has no vowels or puntcuation. It is said by the Rabbi's that HaShem spoke in one long sentance. This is called the mind of God. As I have said, It is in there, it's your job to find it if you want to know. |
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Post by NaildWithHim on Nov 6, 2005 17:21:44 GMT -8
That's your assumption. I never once said that. It's a possibility. However, I will say this. Produce them!
Also, you need to take off your blinders Bob, and check your historical facts. Hebrew was not the common language used by Jews at the time period the Gospels give record of. It was Aramaic.
Again, I'll say this real slow so maybe you will understand me this time.
A........ LANGUAGE........ DOES........ NOT........ PRODUCE........ A......... MINDSET
Shalom
Naild
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Post by Pioneer on Nov 7, 2005 7:15:40 GMT -8
That's your assumption. I never once said that. It's a possibility. However, I will say this. Produce them! Also, you need to take off your blinders Bob, and check your historical facts. Hebrew was not the common language used by Jews at the time period the Gospels give record of. It was Aramaic. Again, I'll say this real slow so maybe you will understand me this time. A........ LANGUAGE........ DOES........ NOT........ PRODUCE........ A......... MINDSETShalom Naild I am afraid all you wish to do is strive for words! Being Jewish, living Jewish and learning Jewish establishes the mindset. Your history was established by Christians before the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Check out how many scrolls or fragments were in Aramaic, even the secular writings. Kinda knocks a gapping hole in the Christian History.(unchallenged half truths and inuendos becoming fact by default.)(immortal soul) I can recognize a mind that is made up. So this is my last comment on this subject. |
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Post by NaildWithHim on Nov 7, 2005 12:52:09 GMT -8
As usual you are building a straw man.
I can recognize when logic, and fact is tossed aside in favor of 'pet' doctrines. Are you aware of the fact that the DSS agree with the Septuagint and confirm thier authenticity? If you are ignorant of a subject it is best not to comment Bob. You might want to check your facts on the sect of the Essene community as well. They seperated themsilves from Rabbinic authority as well as the corrupt Temple system in the days of Yeshua's earthly ministry. They also did not adhere to the Hillel calendar system that postponed the Moedim. You need to study LOTS.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Nov 8, 2005 16:47:22 GMT -8
Now, now gentlemen. Please keep the language respectable. NaildWithHim, The answers to your questions are given in the thread that I supplied for you. Please read the thread and then you can get back to me. We all have much study to do.  Shalom chaver, Reuel |
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Nov 9, 2005 5:03:35 GMT -8
This too was an amazing revelation to me. How many times throughout the TaNaK do we see the term "Word of G-d" being used, and never once did I think to equate that with Yeshua until one day it just hit me like a bolt. This also fits with what the Rabbis say concerning the given at Sinai. They equate it with a living, breathing, person. This makes perfect sense if you see Yeshua as the living embodiement of the . Therefore one can come to this simple equation: Yeshua = and = Yeshua. They cannot be separated. Belief in one must constitute belief in the other. |
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Post by messimom on Nov 9, 2005 11:57:02 GMT -8
This also seems it would be a wonderful tool in helping a new believer struggle with the continuing necessity and validity of . Shalom Messimom
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Post by Firestorm on Nov 9, 2005 13:37:22 GMT -8
"I love the NT, but this is where many false beliefs crept in to Christianity, i.e. Immortal soul."  We're no longer accepting parts of the Brit Chadasha as Scripture now??!! By what authority was this decision arrived at? Once you star down that road how do you if know any of the Scriptures are accurate?? I'd love to hear what, if any, comments there are from any Messianic leaders posting on this site. Some of the things I've been reading on here are starting to get off the wall. |
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Nov 9, 2005 15:44:04 GMT -8
Starting to get off the wall? Man, we've been off the wall for a while. Seriously though, is there something specific that you would like to be addressed? |
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