Hebraic perspective end times

[messimom]

The recent discussions on rapture and end time prophecy have prompted me to bring up this discussion.

I know that as a new Christian I, like many others, got very interested in the "end times" and looked at many event timelines and interpretations. Back then, I believed in a mid-trib rapture. We'd have to suffer through HaSatans anger, but not YHVH's. I still believe that same general principle, I just don't believe we'll leave the earth during the time of YHVH's wrath, just protected.

Anyway, my point here, is to ask if anyone has studied the end times I guess in particular the books of Daniel, Isaiah, Revelation and other prophetic epistles from a Messianic point of view, not Church.

I have heard a couple of interpretations and theories about sections of the time of Jacob's trouble, but nothing encompassing.

I have heard about a second exodus, much like the Israelites leaving Egypt.

What I would like to find out about is a more Hebraic interpretation of the beasts, and much of the symbology along with a timeline.

Now, I don't know that we can truly understand some of the events of these prophetic books until they are upon us. But as of yet, I have seen little speculation about this topic in the Messianic world. And at the same time I think, WOW, we could have some understanding to that mysterious book that "the church" can't even hope to touch on.

So, has anyone done a more indepth study on this subject from a Hebraic perspective?

Sometimes people get so involved in looking behind them, that they forget to look ahead. There's still more to come.

Proverbs 19: 20: Listen to advice and accept instruction, that you may gain wisdom for the future.

I know this is no small discussion and much speculation, but for what purpose is all of our learning about our past if we don't use it to understand who we will need to be.

Messimom

[Blake]

If you are looking for insight on Revelation, you have to be familiar with the Apocalyptic Half of Daniel. The books are so similar in their symbolism its like they are brother and sister.

Also, if we wern't meant to understand ALL the events in Revelation, why would they have even been written down?

[resistingrexmundi]

Daniel and Revelation are inextricably linked and as such the two should be viewed as composites of the same story. I will demonstrate what I mean.

If this offends anyones sensibilities in reference to the seven year tribulation I apologize but as OT prophecies unfolded gradually over time. I believe NT prophecy should be viewed the same way. Since God is consistent.

Eze 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

God gives Ezekiel a day for a year in prophecy. Let's see where else this applies.

Dan 12:11 And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

1290 days are given here. So by Ezekiel 4:6 we should view them as years. So Daniel was told that there would be 1290 "days" from the time sacrafices were taken away until the abomination of desolation was to be set up.

Daniel used a lunar calendar though and we use a solar calendar so we need to convert. 1290 lunar years is 1271.5 solar years. 586BC was the year that the rest of the Jews were taken into captivity. However according to scripture it was three years later until the daily sacrafices were stopped. So we start counting at 583BC.

583BC + 1271.5= 688.5AD. Remember this date. It is the date Daniel says that the abomination of desolation would be set up.



Dan 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

As Jewish idioms go time, times, and the dividing of time = 2.5 not 3.5.

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The original greek word (hemera) translated here as day does not always mean day. It is also used as a word for time. Strong's concordance is given here.

hemera-4) used of time in general

Therefore 2Pe 3:8 could also be read,"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one time [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one time.

Why is that important? Well let's apply it to the time, times, and the dividing of time in Daniel. Remember as Jewish sayings are understood it equals 2.5. So 2.5 multiplied by 1000 equals 2500 years. 552BC was the year this prophecy was given.So we will count from there. 552BC + 2500 = 1948AD. Remember this date.



Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these [things] shall be finished.

So with our understanding of time we will count from when this prophecy is given.

533BC was the year this prophecy was given so we will count from there. 533BC + 2500 = 1967AD. Remember this date.



Let us turn to the seventy weeks now.

Dan 9:24 ¶ Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

So the prophecy says that from the going forth of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem until the Messiah comes to fulfill prophecy will be 69 weeks or 483 days. Remember days = years. We know for a fact days doesn't mean days here because Jesus didn't show up for hundreds of years after the decree came down. Also remember we have to convert from lunar to solar years so our calendars will match. 483 lunar years converts to 476 solar years. 444Bc is the year that Artaxerxes gave the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. So 444BC + 476 = 32AD. Remember this date.

Let us review the first seven weeks. 7 weeks = 49 days. 49 lunar years converts to 48 solar years. 444BC + 48.3 = 395.7BC. This is the year that the last book of the Old Testament was written. Why does that matter? "...to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy." Prophecy was sealed up until Jesus came on the scene. This 400 year gap cause great lamentation in Israel.

The last week of Daniel is really what gets people confused. They think it is to be a seven year tribulation in the future. But Jewish time was reckoned differently in Daniel's day. So if the 70th Week isn’t about a Seven-Year Great Tribulation,
what is it actually about?


The Levitical Code
1st: One Seven (a shavua) of years.
2nd: Seven sevens (shavua) of years.
3rd: One unique Jubilee (shavua) year with 360 Sabbaths.


Daniel’s 70 Weeks
1st: Seven sevens of years, 7 Shavuim.
2nd: 62 more sevens of years, 62 Shavuim.
3rd: One unique Shavua with 360 Sabbaths.

The seventieth week was distinguished in Daniel with the word Shavua instead of Shavuim. So according to Levitical Code this last week would be 7 multiplied by 360. 7 * 360 = 2520 lunar years. 2520 lunar converts to 2484 solar years. Since the seventieth week was left out concerning the decree to rebuild Jerusalem we will count from the year the prophecy came down. 536BC was the year of this prophecy. 536BC + 2484 = 1948AD. Remember this date.



Now let's turn to Revelations.

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty [and] two months.

Here we read that the court outside the temple is given unto the Gentiles. And that they would tread underfoot Jerusalem for 42 months. Since John used a solar calendar we don't need to convert to solar years. A solar month is 30.44 days. So 42 multiplied by 30.44 = 1278.5

Since this scripture is talking about the abomination of desolation, as we will see later, that is to be set up we will use 688.5BC, as established in Daniel, as a starting point. 688.5AD + 1278.5 = 1967AD. Remember this date.

Rev 11:3 And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Who are the two witnesses?

Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Where have we heard candlesticks and olive trees before?

Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in My right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The
seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven
churches.

Romans 11:17 And if some of the [Jewish] branches be broken off, and thou [the Gentile church], being a wild olive tree,
wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree.

Romans 11:24 For if thou [the Gentiles] wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary
to nature into a good olive tree [the Jews]: how much more shall these [the Jews], which be the natural branches, be
grafted into their own olive tree?

Here we read that the two witnesses are two churches. Jewish and Gentile. They will be given power to prophecy 1260 days. Days = Years in prophecy so let's see what we get. 688.5AD + 1260 = 1948AD

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.

As of 1948 the Jewish people are no longer witnessing to other nations because they are in their own country.So 688AD + 1260 = 1948AD.

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

We read that a place is prepared for the woman (Israel). The understanding of times comes into play here again. 724BC was the year the Jews were originally taken into captivity. 724BC + 2500 = 1776. This is the year that the place is prepared for the woman. Remember this date.

Let's review. Scripture says that the Jewish people will become a nation again.(1948AD) That the time of the Gentiles would be over and Jerusalem would return to the Jews. (1967AD) That the abomination of desolation would be set up in the court of the Gentiles.(688AD) And that a place would be prepared for Israel. (1776)

1948- Israel became a nation again.

1967- Israel regained Jerusalem in the six-day war.

688- Dome of the Rock was constructed in honor of Muhammad. Inside is a plaque that reads, "Far be it from His transcendent majesty that God should have a son." What does the Bible say about such an attitude? 1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Notice in Revelations that the court of the gentiles was to be left out. Why? It is given unto the gentiles. It happens that the dome of the Rock is constructed in the court of the gentiles.

1776- United States of America declared her independence and now hosts a Jewish population of millions. Effectively shielding them from Muhammad's religion which states in it's hadith, "'The Hour [of Resurrection] will not arrive until you fight the Jews and the rock and the tree will say: O Muslim, servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!'"

Again if anyone finds this insensitive or mean spirited I apologize I just wanted to share what I have learned.

God bless

[azgdt5120]

Any mod. has anything to comment about this thread?

[Mark]

I don't have a lot of passion for the study of eschatology. This is probably because I am overwhelmed by the subject and prefer to have at least some idea as to what it is that I am talking about.

I suppose I could compare it to my understanding of demolition (which I did some in the military). The truth is, when it comes to blowing things up, I know just about enough to give me dangerous confidence- with what I know, I could get a lot of people seriously injurred, believing that "know what I'm doing".

It's the same with end-times theology. I could come up with a lot of great and convincing teachings; but it is short-sighted, limited in perspective and understanding, and when it really comes down to the brass tacks, pure speculation.

It is true and important to understand that if you don't have a very clear understanding of the book of Daniel, the prophecy of Revelation is little more than a bunch of riddles. Yet, without Hosea, Amos and Zechariah, you're still sighting in wildly with no sense of solid reference. Does this mean that I disagree with what's been written so far? Not at all! It does mean that not all the facts are in and I consider what others say without having to agree or disagree. The discussion is valuable to me and I read it with interest; but had you not asked me specifically what I thought, I would be content to simply take it all in.

[azgdt5120]

Future prophecies are hard to understand but is not a teaching that makes me lose my sleep. This is just a temporally life, as someone else posted in another thread, prepare your self in this life to enter the banquet.