JohnD
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Post by JohnD on Nov 2, 2006 23:44:25 GMT -8
The Prophet Ezekiel in chapter 37 verses 15 - 28 of the book bearing his name spoke of the great restoration of what Romans 11 calls the Olive Tree.
Much blood and ink have been spilled in the name of the great Reformation. But it is the great Restoration that is prophesied in the Bible. The Reformation was the attempt to reform the general faith to a biblical foundation. The Restoration will be the restoring of the Jewishness of the faith.
My understanding of the faith is simple (perhaps to a fault). There are Church organizations and there is the Church organism. Church organizations often stray from the biblical foundation adding traditions of man and even preferring those traditions in some cases over holy writ. And the Church organism often consists of inidividuals who lack the knowledge or experience of being biblically tutored by the Holy Spirit of G-d.
The Reformation, as noble a cause as it was did not reform nearly enough. And the level of anti-Semitism in all varieties of the Church reveals most don't have a clue about the Jewishness of the faith nor that it will be restored to it.
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JohnD
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Post by JohnD on Nov 3, 2006 0:01:03 GMT -8
When I say "Jewishness" I may not be referring to what most imagine Jewishness is. Debates rage on to this day as to what makes a Jew a Jew. So say birth, others say faith, others say a combination of both. And on go the options.
Known to G-d from the foundations of the Earth were his plans to set apart for himself a people.
Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
In that sense, one could "back date" Jewishness to Adam.
Abraham is the actual father of the faith, as the Bible says (for his faith in G-d exercised in Genesis 22). Some argue he was a Gentile at least until he was called to pull up stakes and go to a land the L-rd would show him. Their argument is that the patriarch Judah (from which the name is derived) wasn't even born until three generations later.
So, unless Jewishness transcends the typical argument what makes a Jew a Jew, there is a problem with where it actually began. The back dating I mentioned above solves a lot of problems. And it actually goes through Adam to his Creator (the Messiah).
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
He who became the Messiah was the first and the ultimate Jew.
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JohnD
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Post by JohnD on Nov 3, 2006 0:02:43 GMT -8
Is it any wonder that the name Yehudah means Praise?!
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JohnD
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Post by JohnD on Nov 3, 2006 7:28:59 GMT -8
So the Hebraic roots of Christianity are also the Hebraic roots of Judaism.
One does not negate the other. But we must frankly admit that the goal of the plan of G-d is its ends and not its means.
Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
1 Corinthians 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
What the NIV calls "Christ's Law" is the higher law to which we are bound in Messiah. It is this end, this law, this calling, this restoration that G-d had in mind all along.
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JohnD
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Post by JohnD on Nov 4, 2006 7:21:03 GMT -8
In keeping with the platform of this thread (did Yeshua start a new religion?), he actually had one goal all along with two major phases to get humanity there.
Acts 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
1 Corinthians 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Nov 9, 2006 15:21:21 GMT -8
Please forgive me if I am misunderstanding, but are you suggesting that the (the first five books of the Bible) is no longer necessary as the way one should walk out a set-apart life unto Adonai? If so, we need take each passage that you are using to clear up this common mis-understanding and address the passages in their own apropriate threads. It seems that your last few posts are going in this direction. But your first few posts contained the following language which is now confusing me as to what you mean Please clarify. Shalom, Reuel
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Nov 9, 2006 20:34:19 GMT -8
I had almost forgotten about this.... I echo Reuel's concern here.
John, please clarify your statements.
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Post by Yitzchak on Nov 10, 2006 7:02:00 GMT -8
The comments made above could also be read in a way that undermines the establishment of a Jewish people, and spiritualizes it, which is what the church has done for thousands of years.
In other words, there are only spiritual Jews now, and they are those who believe in Messiah, whether born Jewish or not.
Of course this is not supported by scripture, no matter how you try to interpret it.
I also await clarification, and please forgive me if I have read anything into what has been said.
Shalom,
Yitzchak
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Post by Nachshon on Nov 11, 2006 17:23:41 GMT -8
Proper translation of Galatians 3:24-25, "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under schoolmasters." Whatever "schoolmasters" are, they're plural, not singular. Not the law that Paul talks about in the previous verse. Sorry, that mistranslation grates on my nerves, because it is so blatant.
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Post by Mark on Nov 12, 2006 4:33:06 GMT -8
No, Nachson. Since contains mitzvot, it may be spoken of in both a singular and plural tense. However, we must not get defensive in Paul's words when reading them in context. Is observance the ends or the means, and to what? Paul says it similarly in 1st Timothy 1: the Law is not for the righteous man but for sinners. Are we righteous? No, at least not inthe context of 1st Timothy 1, in that same passage of thought, Paul defines himself as the chief of sinners. So are we not "under the Law", in the context of Galatians 3? No, we are not. Yet, we must understand what is the context and application of what Paul is saying. The Galatian church is victim of the teaching argued against in Acts 15: that one must become a Jewish convert (circumcised and trained in rabbinical Judaism) before they can receive salvation. This is what Paul describes in Galatians 1:6-7 as a perversion of the gospel of Messiah. So, not being under the Law, do we then have license and liberty to trangress the Law? Tell me, after you graduate drivers' ed, do you still have to stop at stop lights? There is no longer an instructor sitting next to you; but hopefully, you recognize an intrinsic value in obeying the rules that he or she forced upon you. The Law is no longer sitting there grading you; but you have the mitzvot written on your heart. We are called to obey , not because we have an outward system of cultural structure that forces obedience upon us or even because we fear the loss of our relationship with God through Messiah (salvation is by grace through faith) rather we obey because we seek to enjoy the goodness of our relationhsip with Adonai and lead others toward a life of repentance (remembering that remains a schoolmaster to bring people to Messiah). If we are walking in the Spirit (in daily intimate communion with Adonai) the result will be that we find ourselves walking in obedience to the mitzotim found in without needing external forces keeping us in line, or as Paul put it, "walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh." (Galatians 5:16).
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Nov 14, 2006 23:10:45 GMT -8
Amein. Every single mitzvah (plural: mitzvot) acts as a vehicle that not only brings us to Messiah, but constantly brings us back to Him when we stray.
But, I think if we want to further carry on this conversation we should do so in it's proper thread.
Shalom chaverim,
Reuel
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