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Post by Rachel on Jul 26, 2008 11:19:54 GMT -8
I figured there had to be a difference, or it wouldn't be commanded:)! What about turning the other cheek? Where is the line? How do we know when to cross it?
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Post by Nashdude on Jul 26, 2008 12:39:41 GMT -8
The USA Military have killed with out cause so they killed in vain. What I will never forget is The Rwandan Genocide was the 1994 mass killing of hundreds of thousands of Rwanda's :*( so .. They didn't have a chance NO help NOTHING! ;( The so called UN peace keepers left them to die... Never trust the UN... Obvious examples of unjust killing... at least, in retrospect. Any saints of Christ in the military involved in those killings should have (IMO) taken court martial rather than participate in what they believed to be murder. James 4:17 -- Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. I figured there had to be a difference, or it wouldn't be commanded:)! What about turning the other cheek? Where is the line? How do we know when to cross it? My late grandmother often put it this way. "If someone slaps you, you turn the other cheek. If they slap you again, you've run out of cheeks to turn." I can't attest to the scripturality of this, but it does raise a good point. The reason we turn the other cheek is not to avoid violence at all costs, but rather to witness for Christ to the unbeliever. We show His forgiveness in not seeking revenge. That is not to say that we lay down as doormats. Jesus taught us against this as well... Luke 22:36-38 -- Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough. "If you have no sword, sell your clothes and buy one." Doesn't sound much like cheek-turning to me... at least, not the doormat version of it. At the time, Jesus is talking to His disciples, giving them instruction on how they are to operate after He's gone. So here you have Jesus talking to somewhere between four and twelve disciples (this takes place just before the prayer and arrest at Gethsemane) and He says that TWO swords is enough to go around. Now, if those swords were to be for aggressive action, it would seem prudent that each disciple should have a sword. Instead, He's implying that most of the disciples be unarmed. Why? Because they are to only be used IN DEFENSE---two men standing firm while the others escape, or at least remain without the means to engage and pursue. As the Bible MUST be in one accord---each passage completely agreeing with every other passage---then we must assume that the "sword" passage agrees with the "cheek-turning" passage. The only explanation here is that "cheek-turning" serves a purpose OTHER than promoting non-violence. Rather, it promotes the idea of using violence as a LAST OPTION... but keeping it as an option, nonetheless. So the question is... "when" to invoke this option? Answer: when the Lord lets you know the time is right. Sorry this is so vague, but there's no way you can know what your actions (or inactions) might mean to another party, so it is IMPERATIVE to listen for the Lord's leading in situations like this, just in case your "cheek-turning" might lead him finally to Christ.
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Post by Mark on Jul 27, 2008 6:29:48 GMT -8
I've sat across form a woman whose husband died of a heart-attack just weeks after the birth of their fifth child (the oldest being about seven). I've sat with mothers and fathers who had their son or daughter taken from them by accidents. I've experienced loss of my own. There are no words of justification or consolation. At best we look up to God with tears filling our eyes and say, "This really sucks."
Is everything that comes down to us from Adonai for our good and intrinsically for the best of everyone as it is to His glory? Absolutely; and my confidence in this is unshakable; but it was a question that I dared not even consider to ask as I held and buried my own dead infant. We don't understand a lot about what God does and why He does it. And any attempt to justify some things according to our own capacity to understand is, at best, hollow.
It is worth considering Job when we read through Adonai's commands to destroy and kill without mercy. It's worth considering Jephthah and his daughter in Judges 11. It's worth considering who is God and consequently who are we. Paul addresses this question in Romans chapter 9
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy. (Romans 9:13-16)
It doesn't matter who you are: thorugh this life you are going to be faced with things that Adonai has placed before you that you are quite comfortably sure is not fair. There will be those who raise such academic questions as we have posed in this tread to which there cannot be a rational, conclusive acceptable answer. The reality is that God is not going to stand defensively before the court of man. It is the other way around. And, the truth is, the beauty and mercy and love and justice that He consistently demonstrates toward me in my own life and according to my finite understanding, vastly outweighs the few devastating experiences for which I have no explanation.
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Tyler
Junior Member
Posts: 64
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Post by Tyler on Jul 27, 2008 10:57:46 GMT -8
Well said Mark.
God's ways are not our ways. When we attempt to justify God's deeds to one another (especially a suffering brother or sister) it leaves us comfortless and often harms rather than helps.
We cannot measure God by human standards. We can only know Him by what He Himself has said and done. And we know ultimately that He is Good - there is none better or more loving. And one day, when we see Him Face to face, we will truly understand all the seeming contradictions that are above us. For now, we seek and ask and have faith.
May God richly bless you Mark and bring you more and more comfort in your mourning. I know the passing of your little one is precious in His eyes and He mourns with you... as do I brother.
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Post by vegangirl on Jul 29, 2008 17:40:13 GMT -8
Mark you're awesome= awe-inspiring...
My mommy lost 5 babies , 2 sets of twins and my brother Nick he died at 3 months old. I have always wondered how she made it with out God.
My sister had 7 abortions and she has 5 living boys ... Nothing ever bad happens to her either she does drugs .. drinks and shacks up but she still lives how she wants and good things come to her I don't understand it... I hope I am able to handle whatever Adoni has coming myway...
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Post by Mark on Sept 13, 2008 14:04:08 GMT -8
From my research and study on this topic, we find that the Jewish nature of seige simp[ly did not any allow to remain in the Promised Land who retained their identity as the previous people group occupying the land.
Those who chose to flee into the neighboring countries were free to do so, even as their cities were under seige. It was only the population that chose to remain that would be killed. This is to sanitize the land from the influences of pagan idolatry. Those who died were those who believed that their gods were powerful enough to save them. This influence would permeate the Jewish society, as we see that it was allowed to exist.
It's important to recognize that Israel maintained an open border. It was fine for anyone to come or go as they pleased... they just couldn't bring in any of their idolatry. The result is that this land was to become fully Jewish. If you, as an idolater had fled and wished to return, you would be free to do so; but your idolatry would not be allowed to return with you. This does not fit the definition of genocide. Even the Amalekites, who were to be completely blotted out, were only to be blotted out within the borders of national Israel.
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