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Post by Mark on Jul 22, 2008 4:07:00 GMT -8
There are a lot of things in Scripture we would probably rather not reckon with. Here is a question where our culture may easily consider itself more righteous than Adonai. How do we handle the texts where Adonai commands the utter destruction of a people?
And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven. (Exodus 17:14)
And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain: (Deuteronomy 2:34)
And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor show mercy unto them: (Deuteronomy 7:2)
And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. (Joshua 6:21)
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Post by Nashdude on Jul 23, 2008 7:06:13 GMT -8
As I said in the "Bigotry" thread, consider the peoples God's condemning. They were into human sacrifice, sexual deviancy, and a number of other evils. God knew that culture would permeate the Jewish culture if the Israelites didn't get rid of them like God commanded.
And they didn't, so it did.
Also, it's worthy to note that God didn't just blanket-condemn folks. The people He condemned, He did for just cause. They HAD the opportunity to change, but refused. The condemnation they received was not God's fault, but their own. And as Rahab the Harlot and her family proves, God's condemnation overlooks the obedient.
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Post by Mark on Jul 23, 2008 19:14:01 GMT -8
Remember that we are talking killing everyone including the smallest infants. How is this justifiable?
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Post by Nashdude on Jul 23, 2008 20:18:37 GMT -8
Remember that we are talking killing everyone including the smallest infants. How is this justifiable? First off, we must remember that God is the one that ordered it, so somewhere down the line, it MUST be justifiable. Secondly, consider that the kids that the Israelites would be inheriting would be scarred for life. Regardless of what culture would be taking them in, they will carry around the remnants of their parent culture. We see similar cases all the time in the American foster care system. Some kid---even less than a year old---is abused in some form or fashion, and they become a developmental WRECK! Now I can see a good, solid family turning this kid around, but we're not talking about a single child or a group of children. We're talking about NATIONS of these kinds of kids! Remember that Israel was still a fledgling nation-without-a-home at the time. The number of would-be orphans would likely have equalled the whole of the nation of Israel, and Israel had more than its fair share of disfunctional families to sort out. Quite likely, such a massive influx of orphaned, abused, screwed-up children would have broken the nation before it started. Seems like a good call on God's part. After all, those children who had never reached an age where they could be accountable for their actions and beliefs, God wouldn't dump off into Hell. It would be completely out of character for Him to unload everlasting contempt on little children who are unable to tell sin from righteousness, so it is practically a given that these kids would get a "pass" from God due to their ignorance/innocence. Wouldn't you agree?
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Bob
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by Bob on Jul 24, 2008 5:39:47 GMT -8
A few years ago I saw a documentary on some sites found close to what was believed to be Sodom and Gamorah. In this documentary the archeologist stated that the bones found there were riddled with cyphalis. Considering the society that God condemned I think it is possible that God commanded the killing of all Humans and Animals as disease prevention. The Middle East including Israel may well have looked like Africa today with entire generations consumed by STD's. Think of the P'or incident, the commandment against bestiality, the commandments against incest. Do you think the Israelites were coming up with this on their own? They had outside influences. The nations around them. Remember also that God gave the nations of the land of Canaan 400 years to repent (while the children of Israel were enslaved in Egypt) Considering all of the above this would mean that the children, infants, women, and livestock may all have been infected. The only way to cure these diseases and keep them from spreading would be to remove the carriers.
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Post by Nashdude on Jul 24, 2008 6:17:58 GMT -8
That's a good point, although I'd be hard pressed to accept it as THE reason God commanded what He did. Remember that the Israelites did NOT keep the commandment, but instead decided to coexist with those that remained. If STD was the issue, then we would have seen it affect (infect?) them as well.
Whatever the reason, there was something so evil about the residents of Canaan that God saw no other alternative but to command their extinction. But note this also---He commanded ISRAEL to do it, rather than take the job on Himself. This suggests that whatever the evil was, it was one of choice, one that required the Israelites to ACTIVELY stand against it, not one that could be headed off simply by exterminating the source of the evil.
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Tyler
Junior Member
Posts: 64
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Post by Tyler on Jul 24, 2008 12:31:37 GMT -8
If STD was the issue why couldn't He have just healed them like with tzaraath ?
And what about Rahav the harlot? How did she escape? (I know... rhetorical question)
Either way, God sure isn't very humane/humanitarian is he?
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Tyler
Junior Member
Posts: 64
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Post by Tyler on Jul 24, 2008 12:33:40 GMT -8
Not to mention... the utter destruction of the animals?!
Eat your hearts out PETA!
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Post by vegangirl on Jul 24, 2008 14:06:52 GMT -8
Tyler!
PETA is not all bad! They are not perfect just like non of us are.. They have done very good things to help animals, what have u done?
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Post by Nashdude on Jul 24, 2008 21:37:01 GMT -8
Either way, God sure isn't very humane/humanitarian is he? It might seem that way for us, but we have to remember---He can see the whole painting. We only see the brush strokes nearest us. Tyler! PETA is not all bad! They are not perfect just like non of us are.. They have done very good things to help animals, what have u done? Used A-1
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Post by vegangirl on Jul 25, 2008 14:01:17 GMT -8
A-1? steak sauce? I am not understanding?
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Post by Rachel on Jul 25, 2008 14:11:59 GMT -8
This is slightly off topic and there may be a thread elsewhere, so my apologies...but how does this fit into the commandment not to kill?? I've often wondered about that and our militaries and going to war. Is it different? What about protecting ourselves?
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Post by Nashdude on Jul 25, 2008 22:59:28 GMT -8
A-1? steak sauce? I am not understanding? Sorry... bad joke This is slightly off topic and there may be a thread elsewhere, so my apologies...but how does this fit into the commandment not to kill?? I've often wondered about that and our militaries and going to war. Is it different? What about protecting ourselves? The "natives" of this board can probably address this better, but the commandment is actually a single word--- ratsach---which means "to murder, or to slay without cause." When it is translated "Thou shalt not kill", it generalizes something that should remain specific. This is something that is not applied to military combat because, in the Godly sense, we're only allowed to use deadly force to defend ourselves---whether to our understanding or to God's. This is why it was right to slay the Amelekites, but it was wrong to "spread the Gospel at swordpoint" in the Crusades. Now, when military service requires the unjust killing of innocents, then you might have a problem. But when you're defending yourself, your neighbor, your country, anyone who cannot defend themselves, then it is justified.
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Post by Mark on Jul 26, 2008 6:21:46 GMT -8
To stir this discussion with a little insight from Jewish tradition, Maimonides, which articulates much of the Jewish understanding of , declares that a city put under siege can only be constrained on three sides. Those wishing to flee are allowed to do so uninhibited.
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Post by vegangirl on Jul 26, 2008 7:16:21 GMT -8
The USA Military have killed with out cause so they killed in vain. What I will never forget is The Rwandan Genocide was the 1994 mass killing of hundreds of thousands of Rwanda's :*( so .. They didn't have a chance NO help NOTHING! ;( The so called UN peace keepers left them to die... Never trust the UN...
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