vickylee
New Member
Starting my journey into the Jewish roots of my faith.
Posts: 16
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Post by vickylee on Jan 13, 2005 14:35:08 GMT -8
I come with my first question.....
The five-fold ministry in Ephesians 5 - Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Teacher, Pastor - what role does this play in Messianic faith? This is a topic that is close to the heart of both my husband and I. we believe that the five-fold ministry needs to be re-established in the ch-rch at large.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jan 13, 2005 22:32:21 GMT -8
Shalom and welcome Vickylee to Ahavat Elohim Discussion Forums!  In regards to your question about "Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Teacher, Pastor", these roles have always been apart of kehilat Yisrael (The Congregation of Israel). May Elohim raise up many more to glorify His  and His son Yeshua The Messiah. Yom tov b'Yeshua HaMashiach (Have a good day in Yeshua The Messiah), Reuel |
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Post by The 614th Mitzvot on Jan 15, 2005 20:04:27 GMT -8
Personally, I believe, that an apostle is a prophet. He has the ability for G-d to show him the future, and enlighten him with visions. Prophets or Nev'yim are evangelists who are able to perform miracles and can tell people the most biblicaly proper advice. Evangelist are Teachers who go out and bring others to G-d. They are leaders who lead spiritual singing. Teachers or Rabbis, are pastors who teach others and enlighten others on the ideals and concepts of scripture. Pastors are group leaders who perhaps are not as knowledgable of scripture, but are wise and common sense and can lead a discussion. I think the terms meanings have been changed. There is of course the other idea that they they are all unique of each other and one cannot grow from pastor to prophet. That's simply my idea. Go and study?  |
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jan 15, 2005 20:50:08 GMT -8
"He gave some to be emissaries; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, shepherds and teachers; for the perfecting of the holy ones, to the work of serving, to the building up of the body of Messiah"- Ephesians 4:11-12 I would say that it is possible for one indivdual have all of these qualities. I believe Yeshua HaMashiach, Rav Moshe, and Rav Sha'ul had these qualities. But, of course not everybody has all of these gifts, and stations... "G'd has set some in the assembly: first emissaries, second prophets, third teachers, then miracle workers, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, and various kinds of languages.
Are all emissaries? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all miracle workers?
Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with various languages? Do all interpret?
But earnestly desire the best gifts. Moreover, I show a most excellent way to you." - 1Corinthians 12:28-31 So we are to desire these gifts and we should pray for them. We should pray especially that we would be given the best gifts...the gift of prophecy... "Follow after love, and earnestly desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
For he who speaks in another language speaks not to men, but to G'd; for no one understands; but in the Spirit he speaks mysteries.
But he who prophesies speaks to men for their edification, exhortation, and consolation.
He who speaks in another language edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the assembly.
Now I desire to have you all speak with other languages, but rather that you would prophesy. For he is greater who prophesies than he who speaks with other languages, unless he interprets, that the assembly may be built up."- 1 Corinthians 14:1-5 But, for our prayer to be effective, we need to walk in obedience... "And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight." - 1Yochanan (John) 3:22 And, "He who turns away his ear from hearing , even his prayer is an abomination."- Mishle (Prov.) 28:9 Shalom chaverim, Reuel
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vickylee
New Member
Starting my journey into the Jewish roots of my faith.
Posts: 16
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Post by vickylee on Jan 16, 2005 13:27:26 GMT -8
I don't understand how one can come to the conclusion by reading Scripture that an APostle is really a prophet, and Prophet really and evangelist, etc. Is not what the Scripture says it is, that is what it is? Enlighten me please.
Let me say these things also.
Yeshua is the chief cornerstone, the foundation of which his congregation was built. He is, according to Heb. 3:1, our apostle and High Priest. Emoodied in his ministry were prophetic, evangelistic, teaching and pastoral type care. Would it not seem, then, that emobodied in the one called to the Office of the Apostle, is the combination of all these gifts. Also, that he is the "head' of ministry.
And working together with the APostle is the Prophet. What was the prophet's ministry in the OT (bear with me, please, as I learn the proper words for all things)? Was it what was stated here - that they were evangelists? No, they heard from the Lord, with visions and dreams, performed miracles, taught others how to hear the voice of YHWH, rebuked and encouraged and spoke into others' lives. That would seem to be the work of a Prophet.
I don't have the Scripture in front of me, but it is *my* belief that the Apostle and Prophet work together for His congregation - that they are the cornerstones.
The Evangelist would be the ones that would bring in the flock, witness the Gospel of peace and teach others how to evangelize.
The Teacher would, IMO, be the one that teaches those that have been evangelized and turn to Yeshua. Teaching them the milk, and then moving onto the meat. Passing them onto the prophet to teach them how to hear the voice of YHWH and releases them out into the "world" to be a witness and work in their giftings. THe Apostle is their covering as they go out.
What about Pastor? Pastor is a Shephard. The Pastor would counsel and shephard the flock that the evangelist brings in. IMO the Apostle, Prophet, Evangelists and Teachers are the ones doing the teaching at services. Pastors are to shephard. That is one on one ministry, in my mind.
Please bring correction if anyone see flaw in what has been stated. I have children running around me right now so not thinking 100%, lol
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jan 16, 2005 13:47:17 GMT -8
I concur  Based on what has already been stated I think that this would only be possible if one individual possesed all the above gifts. Shalom, Reuel |
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Post by Mark on Feb 24, 2005 5:53:04 GMT -8
I believe that this "callings" are not necessarily manifested in one person. Notice that "elders" are always spoken of in the plural form in the New Testament. I believe that the early church was inclined to follow the example of Moses in Deuteronomy 1, to appoint men who already show the examples of leadership and godly character.
At the same time, I think we often get a little ahead of God, thinking we need to fill billets in the Church. I believe that it is God who raises up men to do the work of His kingdom. It is our role to recognize and acknowledge them, not to hire people to fill what we perceive as a vacancy. One man may assume several roles. Because a man is a prophet, can he not have a heart for evangelism? Who is to say an administer cannot teach?
The point is that Christ is the head of the Church. We are His body. It is He who works in us every good thing. I believe that what is so often called the "Church" in our current society is more "liturgical atheism" than the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit because we choose to do His work for Him instead of listening to His voice on a daily basis.
I would suggest that an "apostle" is not necessarily a prophet. The similar English term is more like "ambassador"; or in the Christian terminology, a missionary. I believe that the structure in the New Testament was much less rogueish as where we have now come with the doctrine of the autonomy of the local church. I rather believe in the autonomy of God and the local congregation is His minister.
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and His son Yeshua The Messiah.
