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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on May 3, 2004 20:28:56 GMT -8
Please share your thoughts on Colossians 2:13-14...
"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross"
Shalom,
Reuel
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Post by Blake on Feb 27, 2005 2:23:41 GMT -8
Please share your thoughts on Colossians 2:13-14... "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross"Shalom, Reuel I would like to hear what you think of it because it is often used against me by Christians to say the is abolished. It seems to contradict the words of Messiah himself.....
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Feb 27, 2005 11:57:09 GMT -8
I think my brother Ariel Berkowitz puts it well... "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross" There are some who assume that the subject of this passage is the and that the was nailed to the cross with Yeshua, thereby rendering it either inoperable or canceling it altogether. They get that impression by the surface reading of the words, “having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.” According to this interpretation, the is represented by the words “certificate of debt consisting of decrees”. This passage, however, provides us with a classical example of how necessary it is to study the Scriptures in their original language along with their original cultural context. In being faithful to this hermeneutic, it becomes quite clear that the , as a document, is not the subject of this passage. Taking this into account, we can come away form this passage with a completely different impression than many receive reading it in English, without reference to the Greek. The Greek in question is the phrase which is commonly translated, “certificate of debt…having nailed it to the cross.” According to scholar, Adolf Deissmann, “Some ancient customs connected with the law of debt must be at the root of the celebrated passage in Colossians 2:14 where the technical expression “handwriting” (=bond) is employed in a religious sense and brought into a remarkable connection with the cross. Christ, says the apostle, has forgiven us all the debts incurred by our trespasses.” Finding himself unable to specify specifically the custom to which Sha’ul refers, Dr. Deissmann, nevertheless, comments, “If we are unable to point to the source of the “bond nailed to the cross,” it may be at least allowed in passing to refer to ‘the cross on the bond’. We have learnt from the new texts [he is writing in 1922!] that it was generally customary to cancel a bond by crossing it out with the Greek cross-letter Chi.” In essence, the x stood for the phrase, “I cross out”.
In short, what Sha’ul (Paul) appears to be saying here is that the certificate of debts consisting of decrees against us that was being cancelled was all the debt of sin that we owed to our Father. This is what was being nailed to the cross. It was, in a sense being cancelled with a big X on it, as other debts were cancelled in the ancient Greek world."
I hope this is helpful,
Shalom b'Yeshua,
Reuel
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Post by Mark on Mar 26, 2005 5:18:11 GMT -8
Reuel's got the right perspective on this. I wanted to add another passage that is often in the arsenal of the antinomian (lawless) that is thrown out there to defend their position.
2Co 3:3-11 KJV Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. (4) And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: (5) Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; (6) Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. (7) But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: (8) How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? (9) For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. (10) For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. (11) For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
The error is that the Law itself is lumped together in our understanding so that it appears that the Law is what is being done away as "the ministration of death".
I bring this text up specifically because it is our sloppy use of the English language that allows us to misinterpret the Scripture in both 2nd Corinthians 3 and in Colossians 2.
When we speak of the homerun of a great baseball player, we are not taliking about the player's life, his family, his entire career. We are talking about one event, one reference concerning that person and one thing that he has done. In 2md Corinthians 3, it plainly says that it is the "condemnation" that is done away; not the Law itself.
In Colossians 2 it is the handwriting of ordinances that was against us. That's very interesting when we consider that Moses didn't say that the Law was "against" us. He rather testified that it was "for" us (Deut. 42:36, 37). Yeshua also said that Sabbath itself (one of the things that the Church condemns) was not against us, but for us. (Mark 2:27).
In Hebrews 8:10, you might counter to your friends, the Law was not done away by the New Covenant, it was inscribed upon our hearts.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Mar 28, 2005 1:03:10 GMT -8
Good points
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Post by lambsev on Nov 5, 2009 6:38:38 GMT -8
The "handwriting of ordinances that was against us", this is in my opinion our "rap sheet", and each of us has a specific bill of charges which He forgives (each of us). He did not take away the commandments, He took away our guilt, and punishment for our violations of them.
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Post by jimmie on Jun 1, 2010 14:09:35 GMT -8
I bring this text up specifically because it is our sloppy use of the English language that allows us to misinterpret the Scripture in both 2nd Corinthians 3 and in Colossians 2. Mark, Ordinances- A custom or practice established by long usage- allows for the interpretation of the scripture as you have described. The English is not sloppy. Just the reading of it. Ordinances- An authoritative command or order- when I look through the “old” testament there are many ordinances or judgements that were against me until Christ paid the price for me breaking his statues. The judgements or infractions of his statues is what is taken out of the way, not the statues.
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Post by alon on Oct 14, 2015 22:31:31 GMT -8
“Invictus” by William Ernest Henley
It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul.
This poem displays the epitome of man’s rebellion against G-d. We all want to do our own thing; to live by our rules, not God’s. What is worse, this spirit of ‘making up our own rules’ has become entrenched in Christian churches as well as Messianic synagogues. Ever since the Bishop of Rome was proclaimed the Pope (finally formalized at the 1st Vatican Council of 1870), he’s had the authority to decide doctrine; judging what is, or is not, sin. He thought “to change times and laws” (Dan 7:25), declaring different feasts and nullifying God’s instructions ().
Protestants have done no better, holding onto those doctrines they deem desirable in Catholicism while doing away with the things they found onerous and restrictive. They too nullify obedience to ; the most common being to say “the Law was nailed to the Cross.” This concept is taken from the following scripture:
Colossians 2:14 (ESV) by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
The common teaching is that this “record of debt that stood against us” is a reference to the “Old Testament Laws.” This would imply that God gave us something harmful, or at the least unnecessarily restrictive. God’s Laws are simply statements of what sin is. There is no penalty against you unless, knowing through the law what is sin, you do it anyhow. “Thou shalt not murder” doesn’t penalize you unless you actually take a life without justification. Let’s say you get caught by the police; at that point you are booked, arraigned and charges laid against you. Up until the crime, you were good with the civil legal system because there is no penalty for a crime not committed. Same with God. And in both systems (God’s and mans) there are penalties for breaking the law.
Yeshua did not do away with His when He died on the cross; He paid the penalty for our sins. The charges and subsequent penalty is nailed to the Cross, not the Law!
The reason men want the Law nailed to the cross instead of the charges is this enables them to make their own laws. They say we are “under grace, not under the Law.” Grace is an undeserved pardon for the penalty of breaking God’s Law; not an excuse for continuing disobedience. God defines sin, otherwise He would not be justified in punishing sin; neither could He forgive sin. There is no cross without the law- past, present and future!
Romans 6:22-23 (CJB) However, now, freed from sin and enslaved to God, you do get the benefit — it consists in being made holy, set apart for God, and its end result is eternal life. For what one earns from sin is death; but eternal life is what one receives as a free gift from God, in union with the Messiah Yeshua, our Lord.
Not just “freed from sin,” but “freed from sin and enslaved to God.” Can it be any clearer who we are still accountable to regarding sin? And “set apart for God,” not just set free to do what we think is right. “For what one earns from sin is death;” the penalty for sin as God sees it. “Eternal life … in union with the Messiah Yeshua:” How can we be in union with Yeshua if it is we who determine right and wrong?
And how then is this entrenched in Messianism? Well, first off those of us raised in the church are products of our training and indoctrination. We must work to shake these ideas. But worse, most of us were somewhat rebellious by nature or we'd never have questioned the false doctrines we were being taught. And while that nature may have stood us in good stead getting us to leave Christianity to become Meshiachim, it will not stand as an excuse before God! We may have a harder time fighting this spirit of rebellion than your average Christian would (if they'd look at the truth). I must admit, this is something I have been struggling with lately. I'd like to tell you I am winning, but ...
Dan C
[... based on excerpts form a teaching by Rav S; cleverly reorganized and restated so ya’ll won't know, and will think I’m smart; but … but … “I got grace!" Right? ]
Colossians 2:14 (CJB) He wiped away the bill of charges against us. Because of the regulations, it stood as a testimony against us; but he removed it by nailing it to the execution-stake.
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 16, 2015 20:21:39 GMT -8
He keeps me needing Him enough that I don't struggle too much with rebellion currently. I have many struggles, but that's one my kids have a way of helping me out with. I am just glad He gives us a way to be faithful to Him. I find myself in prayer just telling Him over and over I believe you. Nothing specific in my mind, just that. I no longer understand Christianity that way because we need somewhere to go with all that He gives us. He says, if you believe me then keep my commands. Perfect! We have somewhere to go and a way to express that we hear Him and believe what He says. I need that. Faith isn't about the world. It's about Him so thank you G-d that we have a way to show Him I hear you and I love you. How sick that such a blessing could be called sin. I can't relate to what I used to believe.
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Post by zessazenessa on May 29, 2018 8:37:20 GMT -8
Good points Yes I see the handwriting of ordinances against us as the records that man keeps in its worldly fashion of the keeping of transgressions to their law. Because Yeshua can clear us of sin, yet the world keeps records like debt and criminal records. The law of God is for us, The law of man keeps records not based on the law of God.......just my thinking.
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