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Post by Mark on Dec 7, 2005 4:31:37 GMT -8
What was the purpose of the sin offering? Hebrews 10:4 tells us plainly that it did not take away sins. Why did this particular command remain valid after the sacrifice of the Messiah?
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Dec 7, 2005 5:10:31 GMT -8
What was the purpose of the sin offering? Hebrews 10:4 tells us plainly that it did not take away sins. Why did this particular command remain valid after the sacrifice of the Messiah? Although we already have a couple of threads going on sacrifice, I'll post a short response here. Since it is made plainly known to us that sacrifices have never atoned for our sins, then my position is that it has always been as a memorial to the One who was slain from the foundation of the world. Therefore it is as valid as any other mitzvah. |
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Post by Mishkan on Dec 7, 2005 7:09:21 GMT -8
What was the purpose of the sin offering? Hebrews 10:4 tells us plainly that it did not take away sins. Why did this particular command remain valid after the sacrifice of the Messiah? Although we already have a couple of threads going on sacrifice, I'll post a short response here. Since it is made plainly known to us that sacrifices have never atoned for our sins, then my position is that it has always been as a memorial to the One who was slain from the foundation of the world. Therefore it is as valid as any other mitzvah. This is my own understanding, as well. It seems the only way to explain the commandments in light of, not only Hebrews 10.4, but also Zechariah 14, which necessitates the reinstitution of the Temple. Also, it explains well Revelation 13.8, that Messiah is, "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world". If God has always planned--from the beginning--for Messiah to die to bring atonement, then it only seems reasonable that we should view the sacrifices as zichronim (memorials) before the fact. It is good to see that others have also reached this conclusion. Every time I've raised this idea, it has always been met as a novelty, like it has never occurred to anyone else. Shalom, Mishkan David |
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Pioneer
Full Member
Shema and Shemar
Posts: 210
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Post by Pioneer on Dec 7, 2005 9:28:43 GMT -8
Although we already have a couple of threads going on sacrifice, I'll post a short response here. Since it is made plainly known to us that sacrifices have never atoned for our sins, then my position is that it has always been as a memorial to the One who was slain from the foundation of the world. Therefore it is as valid as any other mitzvah. This is my own understanding, as well. It seems the only way to explain the commandments in light of, not only Hebrews 10.4, but also Zechariah 14, which necessitates the reinstitution of the Temple. Also, it explains well Revelation 13.8, that Messiah is, "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world". If God has always planned--from the beginning--for Messiah to die to bring atonement, then it only seems reasonable that we should view the sacrifices as zichronim (memorials) before the fact. It is good to see that others have also reached this conclusion. Every time I've raised this idea, it has always been met as a novelty, like it has never occurred to anyone else. Shalom, Mishkan David Memorials, moedim, rehearse, rehearse rehearse, if we have time, we may be able to get it right. LOL |
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Post by Mishkan on Dec 7, 2005 10:07:51 GMT -8
Memorials, moedim, rehearse, rehearse rehearse, if we have time, we may be able to get it right. LOL I'm not quite sure I understand your point. You seem to be mocking the idea that animal sacrifices can only serve as memorials of the Messianic atonement, whether they come before it, or after it. Why is that? Nobody is asking for more time, or suggesting that we need to "get it right". The fact is, humans are notorious for their poor memories, and God gave us a mnemonic device that will keep Messiah's sacrifice ever before us. If we had such sacrifices today, it would eliminate a great deal of the contention between Jew and Gentile in this age. All I know for sure is that Zechariah 14 clearly describes the celebration of the Levitical festivals by the surrounding Gentile nations. These festivals necessitate the existence of a Temple, and accompanying sacrifices. Not as a replacement for Messiah, but as part of the definition of those festivals. Shalom, Mishkan David |
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Post by Mark on Dec 7, 2005 17:17:16 GMT -8
Thanks, Guys.
Last night I had an exhausting discussion on this subject. As you said, David, they'd never heard of this before and thus couldn't fathom it. You have been an encouragement.
Mark
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Dec 13, 2005 18:25:28 GMT -8
You are not alone brothers.
I don't know that this was meant to be a mocking statement. I think that perhaps the point he was getting at is that G'd has us doing a whole lot of rehearsing to the end goal that we will finally be able to perform when he arrives.
Shalom aleychem chaverim v'achim,
Reuel
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Post by Deafeye on Jan 7, 2006 22:56:13 GMT -8
Book of Hebrews? Book of Revelation? Who needs that to talk about the Sin Offering and if it took away sins. How about you just read the  .  Leviticus 4:1-2; 13; 22The Sin Offering 1 The L_RD said to Moses, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'When anyone sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the L_RD's commands- etc. etc.... 13 " 'If the whole Israelite community sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the LORD's commands, even though the community is unaware of the matter, they are guilty. etc. etc... 22 " 'When a leader sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the commands of the LORD his God, he is guilty. etc. etc... So, that being said: 29 The next day John saw Yeshua coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of G_d, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1: 29) or in better words. The next day John saw Yeshua coming towawrd him and said, "Look the Lamb of G_d, the sacrifice for the INTENTIONAL sin of the world we have been waiting for is here!" Remember that before Yeshua, the punishment for intentional sin was death... there was never a burnt offering for the sins that condemn us... I trust we all here understand the words of the Bible pretty clearly and I dont need to explain myself much... ~Shalom~ |
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Post by Ruchamah on Oct 17, 2009 6:00:57 GMT -8
This is the question that has caused innumerable doctrines to take flight in the *christian* aisle: The sacrifices are commanded by the Almighty.Do they have a real PURPOSE or is it just memorials and etc? According to Hebrews, they actually serve a purpose! And they worked! They did what they were supposed to do! Let me begin by saying that the Temple/tabernacle is HOLY, the dwelling place on earth of HOLY GOD. He wants to dwell *in the midst* of the people. But His holiness is a fearsome thing, and will consume you UNLESS you follow the protocol outlined in . If you want to come to His House, you must come His way. This includes bringing appropriate sacrifices. If it is a peace offering, you bring one thing, an olah was another. For a sin offering, outlines the appropriate sacrifice. If you followed the instructions laid out in , you were able to *do business* with Him in His House. Nadab and Abihu were examples of what happens when this House Protocol is NOT followed. Also, please keep in mind that the only time offerings were made was if and when you wanted to go to the Temple/tabernacle! If you lived in the Galil, you didnt drop everything and run up to Jerusalem every time you offended His ! Rather, these offerings were made when you wanted to go to His House, ie for the Moedim. The animal offerings actually did what they were supposed to do! Think of it this way: the offerings provided the offerer with an asbestos suit, so that he was not consumed by the Holiness of Adonai. He was able to be in the House, partake of the Table, and live to tell about his experience. Hebrews says it this way: Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: Also, these offerings are only necessary if His house is available here on earth. No House, no need for animal offerings. If the House is rebuilt, then yep, we will make these offerings again ONLY IF we want to go to His house on earth! If we opt to not worship Him in His House, then there is no need for offerings! (why would we chose to not worship Him in His house though?-personally, I can't wait!). House on earth = flesh needs to be purified (blood of bulls etc) Eternal house in the Heavenlies = conscience needs to be purged (only blood of Messiah) Hope that clarifies a litttle bit! With Temple longing.... Ruchamah |
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