|
|
Post by OnlineAlice on May 21, 2006 15:49:48 GMT -8
Hi everyone! I have been meaning to introduce myself and have so busy have not had time but a friend called me today asking me about Acts 21:25. I am a new Messie and have a hard time explaining things. Also different translations state this verse a little different. He asked me to see what answers I could get and you guys are so wonderful, I know you will help me explain this! We have people telling us that this verse means as Gentiles we are not required to do anything but what is listed in this verse. I disagree but am having a hard time with this!
Thank you,
Alice
|
|
Pioneer
Full Member
Shema and Shemar
Posts: 210
|
Post by Pioneer on May 21, 2006 19:49:18 GMT -8
Hi everyone! I have been meaning to introduce myself and have so busy have not had time but a friend called me today asking me about Acts 21:25. I am a new Messie and have a hard time explaining things. Also different translations state this verse a little different. He asked me to see what answers I could get and you guys are so wonderful, I know you will help me explain this! We have people telling us that this verse means as Gentiles we are not required to do anything but what is listed in this verse. I disagree but am having a hard time with this! Thank you, Alice Alice, my teacher says as a gentile coming to faith, we are told by our Sanhedrin that these are the four things expected of him, but as he learns  and how to walk he adds these things to the four. He says since a gentile convert can't be expected to be fully observant from day one since he has not a "Yiddish YoMomma" to instruct him from 5yrs of age to a son of the commandments. He says that we always go forward, adding to our walk, never to turn back(as a dog to it's vomit and a sow to the mire) Hope this helps. I relate to your other post, kinda sounds like my awakening. Welcome, hope you enjoy the forum. Shalom |
|
|
|
Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on May 21, 2006 23:04:44 GMT -8
Well said Pioneer.  Shalom, Reuel |
|
|
|
Post by Chizuk Emunah on May 22, 2006 4:36:19 GMT -8
Shalom Alice!
I would agree with Pioneer here. These are the 4 minimum requirements for Goyim (Gentiles) that they are expected to follow. Also, you will find the actual decision to be passed down by Ya'akov HaTzeddik (James the Just, brother of Yeshua) in Acts 15:20-21.
|
|
|
|
Post by Nachshon on Jun 25, 2006 12:10:06 GMT -8
You have to realize that Acts 21 is just quoting an earlier passage, Acts 15:20. Then look at verse 21. Alright, as Pioneer pointed out, these are considered the minimum requirements. They are what some referr to as the laws of table fellowship. In other words, a Jew would not eat with someone who didn't keep these commands. They wouldn't be allowed into the Synagogues, if it could be helped. The idea, if you read Acts 15:20-21 is to keep these, so that they're allowed into the synagogues, then send them to synagogue to learn about the . Shalom, David |
|
|
|
Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jun 25, 2006 15:53:17 GMT -8
Good points David!
I would also add that these four things were usually associated with idol worship. And, people coming to faith in Messiah could not serve both our Heavenly Father and devils.
Shalom,
Reuel
|
|
|
|
Post by Mark on May 26, 2007 5:53:30 GMT -8
... so, murder and lying and stealing are okay as long as it doesn't have anything to do with blood, sex or idols right? The antinomain (lawless) will roll his eyes and tell you that such a postion is preposterous, and it is! Yet, equally preposterous is the idea that the Church of Jerusalem has the power to determine in the place of God what is sin and what is not sin for all of mankind.
When a person comes into a knowing relationship with the Messiah in the Church, you don't sit him down and say, "Okay, you're a Christian now. You need to pray every day, be at Church three times a week, tithe 10% of your earnings, and memorize at least one verse of Scripture per week." No, to do so, you'd send him off reeling. But you do say, "You're a new Creation now, a member of the body of Christ Himself with the Spirit of God dwelling in you. So you need to stay out of the topless bars, you need to lay off the porn, and you need to really avoid the casinos." Is this because you can't be a Christian if you go into those places? No, it's because the conflict between the God who has chosen to live in you and carnality of your flesh will destroy you.
If you culturally, the required prohibitions of new believers were directly linked to the pagan idolatry of the day: you can't participate in woship of the gods and exist as Son of Adonai at the same time. The two things are mutually exclusive- an attempt to hold on to both is absolutely self-destructive.
Take just a moment to look at Galatians 2:10. Paul, when relating the Acts 15 position to the Galatians Church says nothing about blood or idols or fornication. He says that the only requirement is to remember the poor. In English this sounds like a different message; but in Greek, he is clearly talking about the spiritually destitute.
|
|
|
|
Post by Prodigal Girl on Apr 10, 2008 2:52:57 GMT -8
Vegan:
In order to be allowed into into a setting where he could learn that the above things you mentioned, and others, are sin, a new believer would first need to get in the door. To gain initial admittance into "table" fellowship with believers at that time, what they were saying in Acts, was that you had to do the things listed: no idolatry, no fornication, no consuming of blood, no eating of strangled animals. These are the four things that were given at that time.
The whole point is, to get people to turn away from sin in all its points. But first people have to be educated what sin is. In my own experience, this takes a while. Quite a while. It is a process.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Apr 10, 2008 4:12:57 GMT -8
One of the things I learned as a technical writer was that it is very easy to insert your own agenda into a text with very slight modifications in the way you choose to present the information. Acts 21:25 is a perfect example. As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. (Acts 21:25) First, we must ask what is the "no such thing" that is being talked about? Nachson identified it in his post that they were not being taught to "not circumcise their children, to forsake the Law of Moses, and forsake the customs." Second, the King James text includes the word "only", which is not implied in Greek. The flavor of the statement has a completely different read. In fact, if you place the phrase "save only that" with the word "rather" the implication of the verse is completely changed to show support for observance by the gentiles. "Not only do we agree that Jews live obediently; but we have sent letters to the gentiles stating that they ought to take steps toward obedience as well." The text, while standing alone, could be interpretted either way. This is why we have to look into broader textual criticism and find Peter and James both teach giving examples from as how men ought to behave. If, in their teaching to gentile believers, Peter and James use the commandments given in to justify their position, they cannot be denying the application of those commands in Acts 21. |
|
and how to walk he adds these things to the four. He says since a gentile convert can't be expected to be fully observant from day one since he has not a "Yiddish YoMomma" to instruct him from 5yrs of age to a son of the commandments.
