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Post by Blake on Mar 7, 2006 19:43:57 GMT -8
God enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and let Canaan be their servant. - Genesis 9:27 (JPS)
What is the meaning of this verse? God has certainly enlarged the Japethites who reign over three of the world's most prosperous contintents, but what does the clause of dwelling in tents of Shem and Canaan being his servant mean?
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Post by Ashirah on Mar 31, 2006 19:25:41 GMT -8
Well that's a good question Blake. I see no one has responded. Hopefully someone will be studying the verse to try to find out. I'll be interested in reading what anyone else has to say. Do you have any idea at all - any thoughts?
The only thing that comes to heart is asking what Shem was famous for and somehow that would apply. And I'm sure we know that both the Shem and cannanite situations are metaphorical.
Also, I want to thank you for all of your input here at Ahavat Elohim. I learn a lot from you.
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Post by Mark on Apr 17, 2006 4:05:27 GMT -8
Please keep in mind that the best we can do is speculate based upon how we have seen hsitory played out to date- history is not over; and we must emphasize that the Word of Adonai spans eternity. It is worth noting that the the greatest ethnic world powers have always been descendants of Shem: the Egyptians, the Babylonians and the Romans are all traced to Shemite geneology www.biblebelievers.org.au/nation03.htm This may be an easy answer to your question as we see that the children of Japheth (the Hebrews) have been in captivity under the rule of these nations; but have enjoyed a certain level of protection and even authority while in that captivity. That's a surface answer. It would not be a wasted effort to investigate further deeper insights regarding the spiritual implications of these geneological statements, particularly the pattern of blessings and curses associated with these people groups throughout biblical history. I apologize for not responding sooner. We have launched a fledgling Messianic group here and I'm swamped. My wife gave birth to our eighth child last week. It's been kinda crazy around here. |
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Post by Blake on Apr 17, 2006 8:01:38 GMT -8
You seem to be a bit confused on whom was descended from whom. Semitic tribes include the sons of Elam or the Elamites, the sons of Asshur or the Assyrians, and of course Eber's children the Hebrews. The Hebrews were certainly not descended from Japeth, and neither were the Romans or Egyptians descendents of Shem. The Egyptians were sons of Mizraim who was a descendant of Ham along with Phut (father of the Phoenecians) and Canaan the father of the Canaanites. The Japethites are basically all European... Greek, and Romans are his descendants and I myself am a descendant of Japeth through his son Magog. Congatulations on your eighth child. What a blessing! Keep going like you are and you might have a nation named for you.  |
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Apr 17, 2006 22:54:28 GMT -8
Baruch HaShem v'Mazel Tov! Congrats on the new baby!
You sound like you are going through a similar thing that I am keeping busy with a fledgling Messianic Congregation...it certainly keeps you busy along with everything else in life.
In regards to the scripture passage in Beresheet 9:27...
"May Elohim enlarge Yefet. Let him dwell in the tents of Shem. Let Kena`an be his servant."
Not certainly, but possibly the Greeks and Romans being the offspring of "Yefet" we see many Goyim many times signified as "Greek" in the scriptures. And, we see them joining themselves to Judaism and thus their tents (Shem) and the faith of Messiah which is Messianic Judaism and we will see this be fully fulfilled in the end of days (Zekeryah/Zech. 8:23). In regards to Kena'an being his servant...There is a interesting quote I found from a man named Matthew Henry,
"When strangers become friends, enemies become servants.".
Shalom chaverim,
Reuel
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Apr 19, 2006 4:00:55 GMT -8
First let me say Mazel Tov! Okay, now 8 kids?!? Woah! How do you and your wife manage that? My wife and I are expecting our first here within the next couple of weeks and we've been going crazy getting ready for just this one. Oy, I can only imagine 8.....  |
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Post by Mark on Apr 20, 2006 5:28:23 GMT -8
It was not my intention to by any means hijack this thread. Thanks for all the congratulations, all the same. I've thought about another Topic in this forum on the area of faith and family- the importance and priority of our families in our faith structure; but I'm not sure if that may spread the scope of this forum a little thin. I find it interesting that nearly all the Scriptures relied upon by the Church to promote and defend family are Old Testament Scriptures.
Blake, I'm sorry, and I appreciate your holding me accountable. I had thought up a possible answer to your question while trying to sleep, got up and found material that I thought might support my hypothesis. I never actually read the document that I linked in this above thread; just did a key word search to make sure that what I was looking for was there.
It is arrogant of me to think that I have all the answers or to believe that I can easily find the answers that everyone needs. It's a teetering trap of anyone in leadership, who spends a great deal of time having the answers and answering people's theological needs. It's a thorn in my theological side to say that I don't know... better to make something up and shoot from the hip. Reuel and Yitzchak are wagging their heads and chuckling uncomfortably, without question. Not suggesting they have answered in such a way, I've no doubt they have been tempted to simply because the nature of our positions. The Bible is a big book. We can't know all of it. We shouldn't pretend to; rather we are humble disciples of the Holy Spirit... and willing to learn more than teach.
Ther are three ways to approach your question:
Does it apply as an on-going condition throughout history? (That Shem will be the dominate power, Japheth will exist in his protection and Canaan will be in subjegation)
Does it apply to a single event pr period in history? (the four-hundred years in Assyria or possibly an event that is yet to occur)
Does it apply to the final state of our existance? (When Adonai establishes a New heaven and a new earth, will the relationship of these households be represented in this way- no, I don't believe this one either; but the idea is to demonstrate their several perspectives we can take when looking fo rthis sort of answer.)
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Post by Yitzchak on Apr 20, 2006 11:23:51 GMT -8
First let me say Mazel Tov as well on the new addition. How blessed is the man whose quiver is full.
Now let me say, "I resemble that remark." I feel like the N.Y. Mets bobble head in the back of my father's 1957 Chevy Bel Air.
How right you are Achi. Of late, I have made an effort to more and more say, "you know what, I am not sure, so let me do some research, and get back to you."
Now Blake, please don't take this the wrong way, but when I first read the question, I thought, what is the point. How does this affect the Besorah, and our raising up disciples. You see, I made a commitment a while back to no longer teach that which had no application to one's daily life. The days are over for me of 7 part series on why Accacia wood was used for building the Ark.
I am not suggesting that we should not be discussing such things, but in the great scheme of things, how does this relate to our daily walk with HaShem.
Shalom,
Yitzchak
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Post by Blake on May 2, 2006 20:42:08 GMT -8
I believe the verse to be prophetic and could have very interesting implications.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on May 21, 2006 23:00:35 GMT -8
Not at all brother. I learn most of what I know through people whom contend for the truth with me. We are all learning and none of us knows everything. I am sure that on this forum you can find something that I have said that is not the most accurate...and, if you do, I would love for it to be brought up...that is how I learn.
Shalom achi,
Reuel
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Post by Golfnerd on Jun 2, 2006 1:55:06 GMT -8
I believe the verse to be prophetic and could have very interesting implications. what about this verse makes you think it's prophetic? What implications do you see in this passage? |
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