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Post by hummingbird on Mar 13, 2004 22:16:53 GMT -8
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.  I was wondering  Who exactly are the many? and who are the chosen? |
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Post by el Gusano on Mar 13, 2004 22:53:42 GMT -8
Here's a tract written by a friend of mine that covers this very subject. I will just post the link so I don't clog the page. If Reuel wants to post the entire thing, it's public domain, so it can be copied. www.gracebiblechurch.us/tracts/elect.html |
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Mar 14, 2004 19:51:05 GMT -8
El Gusano, I read the article and was a little confused by the following statement as I don’t think the Brit HaDashah (New Covenant writings) teaches this…. Obviously this is up for discussion in another thread, but I do believe that the scriptures teach that one can indeed loose his/her salvation if they fall away. Hummingbird, I would say that many (if not all) are called to a relationship with YHVH (Elohim). ”For God so oved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2Peter 3:9 Unfortunately, many wish to worship themselves, or something else rather than YHVH the Elohim of all creation. Indeed, few are chosen out of all those who are called in the world. Narrow is the way to life, and wide is the gate to destruction…. ”Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” Matthew 7:13-14 This narrow gate, and path can be found in our Heavenly Fathers  , was demonstrated by Y’shua HaMashiach, and is indeed found in Him. Many who thought that they were chosen will be in for the shock of a their life…. ”Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work Torahlessness/lawlessness.” Matthew 7:21-23 We see that only those who do the will of the Father will enter in to Y’shua’s rest. There is only one place that the will of The Father is written down…His . Every other revelation stems from this source. Y’shua says in the above passage, "away from me ye that work Torahlessness/lawlessness/iniquity". You see, those whom have been actually saved by faith through His grace will show it by their works (James 2:18). And, those whom confess to know Y’shua yet break The Father’s law (knowingly) are indeed still carnal…yet being deceived, they think they are spiritual…<br> ”For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.” Romans 8:5-7 We see in the above passage the reason that a mind is enmity against Elohim is because that mind is not subject to the /law of YHVH. Indeed, few are willing to be obedient sons. Yeshua taught a parable on this concept... "But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Yeshua saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you." Matthew 21:28-31 Many people pay lip service to Him, yet their hearts are far from Him. Shalom, Reuel |
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Post by el Gusano on Mar 14, 2004 22:42:00 GMT -8
A teaser until I have a little more time:
There are several words translated as “saved”. In Luke 1:71, it is salvation from our enemies. In Matthew 8:25 and 14:30, it is physical salvation. In Acts 16:30-31; it is salvation of the spirit. What then do we refer to when we talk about “salvation” and “eternal life”?
The elect have to come from the body of believers.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Mar 15, 2004 19:09:49 GMT -8
Amen.
You are right, their are many applications to the word salvation, and being saved from the second death would be the ultimate application of this. I would also say that the ultimate application of the term salvation would be that we are written in YHVH's book of life. Every other application pales in comparison....
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." Revelation 20:12
"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:15
"And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life." Revelation 21:27
Shalom,
Zealot
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Curt
Full Member
Posts: 136
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Post by Curt on Mar 17, 2004 16:30:14 GMT -8
Humingbird, I believe 'the many 'it speaks of whom are called includes all mankind. The 'few chosen 'I believe are those who accept His calling.  |
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Yochanah
Junior Member
Yochanah...Yah Enables
Posts: 99
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Post by Yochanah on Mar 17, 2004 17:35:26 GMT -8
Praise the name of our Heavenly Father for He is just and good and fair.
Your answers are truth and Spirit lead, Reuel.
John 3:36
He who believes in the Son possesses everlasting life, BUT he who does not OBEY the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of Elohim remains on him.
James 2:19
You believe that there is one Elohim, you do well: the devils also believe and tremble.
Why do they tremble? Because they know that their time of tyranny and caous is nearly over and they will be thrown into the lake of fire.
Rev. 20:10
And the devil, who lead them astray, was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the beast and the false prophet are. And they shall be tortured day and night for ever and ever.
Rev. 20:14-15
And death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH. And if anyone was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Rev. 14:11
And the smoke of their torture goes up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, those worshipping the beast and his image, also if anyone recieves the mark of his name.
We see that it is the smoke of their torture that continues forever and ever. They will suffer day and night until they are no more.
The wrath of Elohim is that He will give them up.
Romans 1:18-21,24
For the wrath of Elohim is revealed from heaven against all wickedness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which is known of Elohim is manifest among them; for Elohim has manifested it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible qualities have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, both His everlasting power and Mightiness, for them to be without excuse, because, although they knew Elohim, they did not esteem Him as Elohim, nor gave thanks, but became vain in their reasonings, and their discernment of heart was darkened... Therefore Elohim gave them up...
To be in rebellion against YHWH is sin. The penalty for sin is death. Pardon of our sins was freely and graciously given at Calvary, because Yeshua haMachiach was the Innocent Lamb that laid down His own sinless life as our Ransom. But in order to claim that Priceless Ransom as our own we must except Yeshua, the only begotten of Elohim as our personal Savior. The devil and his army would not do this. So they must pay their own penalty for sin. The only reason they are still alive is so that this whole sin problem could fill up the cup of iniquity. When this takes place, our Messiah will come to claim His Bride (His faithful remnant church). When all the angels and all those who love Elohim see the awful extent of sin, and what it cost, sin will be no more because those written in the Book of Life will abhor sin.
Our Blessed Messiah came to save us from our sins, not in our sins. He meets us where we are, yes...but what most people don't seem to think about is that He does not leave us where we were, in the cesspool of sin. He is the Potter and we are His clay. He molds us and reshapes us as we begin to obey Him. We are declared right through our belief in the Son, but final proof of our belief is whether we subsequently obey Him or not.
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:14
But He says;
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
Matthew 7:7
Heavens Blessings,
Yochanah [Yah Enables]
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Mar 17, 2004 17:51:08 GMT -8
Amen Yochanah.  |
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Post by Matthew H. Dunham on May 16, 2004 21:16:19 GMT -8
Ah, Very Good Question!
I believe many are called but very few are chosen to understand the real truth of Yeshua's teachings. There has been a lot of changes to the 'Way' started by Yeshua. Here's just 3:
Christian Easter: The date was changed to coincide with the Pagan Spring festival of Simeramis sleeper widow of Baal king of Babylon along with incorporating of Pagan deities such as the Easter bunny, colored eggs etc.
Christian Christmas: Originally Tamoz birthday, Simeramis illegitimate bastard son's birthday on the Winter Solstice.
Sabbath day is now Sunday because Constantine said He was a Christian but really still worshiped the Sun God.
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Post by Matthew H. Dunham on May 16, 2004 21:20:45 GMT -8
Humingbird, I believe 'the many 'it speaks of whom are called includes all mankind. The 'few chosen 'I believe are those who accept His calling. I think if Yeshua had meant ALL He would have not used the word Many. Please read my post. |
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Yochanah
Junior Member
Yochanah...Yah Enables
Posts: 99
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Post by Yochanah on May 17, 2004 7:10:13 GMT -8
Romans 12:3
"...Elohim [God] has given to each a measure of faith."
Matthew 18:12-14
"What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, would he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains, going to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, truly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Thus it is not the desire of your Father in the heavens that one of these little ones should be lost."
[Sorry I can not remove this face - it is "Do you ..."]
Mark 4:13-15
And He said to them,"Do you not understand this parable? How then shall you understand all the parables? The sower sows the Word. These, then, are the ones by the wayside where the Word was sown. And when they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the Word that was sown in their hearts."
John 10:27-28
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them everlasting life, and they shall by no means ever perish, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand."
Mark 4:16
"And likewise these are the ones sown on rocky places, who, when they hear the Word, immediately receive it with joy, and they have no root in themselves, but are short-lived. Then when pressure or persecution arises because of the Word, immediately they stumble. And others are those sown among the thorns, these are they who hear the Word, and the worries of this age, and the deceit of riches, and the desires for other matters, entering in, choke the Word, and it becomes fruitless. And those sown on good soil, are those who hear the Word, and accept it, and bear fruit, some thirtyfold, and some sixty, and some a hundred."
That "measure of faith" is given to "ALL". But not "all" cherish the Word when they receive it. And "ALL" receive the Word, whether through actual hearing of the Word or through the evidence of His great act of creation through the things of nature. We, each and "all", are measured by how we live up to the amount of light we are given. We will "all" be wieghted in the balance and "many" will be found wanting. Only the "few" who listen and follow their Master's lovely voice will walk the "narrow" path that leads to eternity.
He wants not one to fall, He takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked. Therefore, study His Word, pray for faith, surrender doubts and the contentious spirit. For the body of Messiah must be of one mind, as they were on that typical Day of Pentecost, so they must be this coming anti-typical Day of Pentecost.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on May 17, 2004 7:45:55 GMT -8
Shalom Matthew,
You stated...
You are right that the original faith that Yeshua taught to His disciples has been severly perverted, although that faith never included a celebration of Easter, nor Christmas. Instead, they celebrated Pesach, and Hannukah.
In regards to this discussion the scriptures indicate that Adonai wishes that none would perish, and all would be saved, therefore all are indeed called...
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of G'd our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
1Timothy 2:3-4
And, they are without excuse if they don't heed that call...
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and G'dhead; so that they are without excuse"
Romans 1:20
I just realized that this thread belongs in the Gospels category. I will move it there.
B'Shem Yeshua,
Reuel
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Post by Matthew H. Dunham on May 17, 2004 19:23:00 GMT -8
Shalom Reuel,
I don't know if you got my first reply. I'm communicating at a slow baud rate and I thought I got hung up. In response to your reply I submit the following.
JOH 6:44 {No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.}
I did a word search for the word 'ALL' and in the 4 Gospels of those who haerd Yeshua speak I found no direct quote where Yeshua said what Paul (who never met Him in the flesh) said.
JOH 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John.
JOH 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe.
Do you know any direct quotes that I may have missed?
I noticed you deleted my Expletive. Promiscuous would have been my choice over sleeper. Would that have been acceptable?
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on May 17, 2004 21:15:57 GMT -8
Shalom Matthew, I did not remove the word. But, this discussion forum automatically removes certain words. I am not sure what word that you used, but it was something the system did not like. It was nothing that I objected to. You stated... Many of the holy men Adonai used to pen His words in the TeNaKh never met Yeshua in the flesh. Should we believe their words? We must take Paul's word's into account because he recieved them from Yeshua, and did indeed meet Him, and spoke to Him (2Co 12:4, Acts9:4-6, 1Cor.1:17, 1Cor.2:4, 1Cor.2:13, Eph 3:3, 2Ti.1:13). Notice, how Paul claims that this is the will of G'd... "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of G'd our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." 1Timothy 2:3-4 I am not saying all men will be saved...only that this is good, and perfect will of G'd. In regards to passages found in the Gospel's... "For G'd so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." - John 3:16 This last passage implies that -any- whom believe will not perish. If we are looking for a passage from someone that knew Yeshua well, lived with Him day in and day out, and spoke with Him often...why don't we see what Kefa (Peter) had to say by the leading of the Ruach Hakodesh... "Adonai is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." - 2Peter 3:9 We have at the very least two witnesses in the scripture wich serves to establish this matter. Are there any other scriptures to bring to light in regards to this discussion of many being called, and few being chosen? B'Shem Yeshua, Reuel |
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Curt
Full Member
Posts: 136
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Post by Curt on Jun 2, 2004 14:59:21 GMT -8
Matthfew H. Dunham, I apologize for not seeing your reply sooner. "on 03/17/2004 at 19:30:14, Curt wrote:Humingbird, "I believe 'the many 'it speaks of whom are called includes all mankind. The 'few chosen 'I believe are those who accept His calling. I think if Yeshua had meant ALL He would have not used the word Many. Please read my post." Curt: I see your point but I think if you look at other verses it might add meaning. If you look at the idea of a" whole" including everyone (the all) which also could be subdivided into components of "the many" and "the few". Maybe "the many" is just a poor translation of correct meaning of "all". If you look at 100% of the people (the all) they could indeed be considered to be many as compared to (the few) which is a small percentage compared to (the many). I Timothy 2:3-4 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth". If God desires all men to be saved then He must call all men in order that that they may choose to accept or reject. |
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I was wondering 
, was demonstrated by Y’shua HaMashiach, and is indeed found in Him. Many who thought that they were chosen will be in for the shock of a their life….
