|
|
Post by Rick on May 2, 2005 20:11:08 GMT -8
OK, OK, UNCLE! Act 5:39 but if it is of Elohim, you are unable to overthrow it, lest you even be found to fight against Elohim. Act 28:23 And having appointed him a day, many came to him where he was staying, to whom he was explaining, earnestly witnessing about the reign of Elohim, and persuading them concerning יהושע from both the  of Mosheh and the Prophets, from morning until evening. Phi 1:25 And being persuaded of this, I know that I shall stay and continue with you all, for your progress and joy of belief, I'm still chewing, but I think my scale just tipped  VERY persuasive Reuel, well thought out, well put, I see your line of reasoning. |
|
|
|
Post by Chizuk Emunah on May 2, 2005 20:43:57 GMT -8
v'imru amein.  |
|
|
|
Post by Dim12trav on Sept 1, 2005 8:11:24 GMT -8
I realize this is an old thread and I hope that I can revive it a little to help out my understanding.
As I understand things Moses had all the tabernacle, instruments and fences built as exact duplicates of what he saw in heaven while he was on the mount sinai. Correct?
Solomon's temple was a permanent (in stone) replacement for that tabernacle.
The second temple built after the Babylonian exodus was the one that the Greeks spoiled/defamed and the Maccabees fought over.
The third temple was built/ expanded by Herod and was destroyed by the Romans.
All along there has been a "perfect temple" in heaven in which G-d sits on the throne and where Messiah's blood was placed on the mercy seat/kapporeth that actually paid for all of our sins?
Will there be a reign of Hasatan here on Earth during the apocalypse? and will there be a temple built during that time frame? Ysrael compromise with this ruler for peace which will be broken. Those members of the "body" will not be here on earth during this time frame (premillenial departure).
Does this seem correct to anyone?
|
|
|
|
Post by Chizuk Emunah on Sept 2, 2005 16:14:17 GMT -8
Correct.
Actually, I believe (I may have to do some checking) that the 2nd Temple and the one expanded by Herod, were one and the same. Therefore it is always referred to as "The Second Temple."
Right. Since Moshe fashioned the Mishkan (Tabernacle) after a pattern that was revealed to him, the Temple in hashamayim has been there since Creation. Because Yeshua has not yet returned, I believe he is still in the process of opening the sealed book of the New Covenant that only he is worthy to open.
HaSatan, no. False Messiah as an agent of HaSatan, yes.
Absolutely. According to the prophet Zechariah, sacrifices must be re-instituted and then abruptly stopped in the end of the days. Also, in order for the "Abomination of Desolation" to take place, the Temple must be standing.
Now the exception to all this (there's always an exception) is that a Mishkan be reconstructed instead of a Temple. Given our understanding of modern events, the more I think about it, the more likely I think it is for a Mishkan (Tabernacle) to be constructed instead of a Temple.
This is what Yeshua said:
Matt. 23:9,13
Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
There is no indication that the body of Messiah will not have to endure "the tribulation." On the contrary, Yeshua said that we would endure "the tribulation" and blessed are we for doing so.
Shabbat Shalom.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dim12trav on Sept 4, 2005 12:51:50 GMT -8
The "punishment" that messiah takes on our behalf while it is given by the Roman's is according to G-d's promise and is the method for the payment of our sins according to . Messiah is quoted as saying "it is finished". Since those believers who confess our L-rd are considered as part of His body then for this body to be punished twice is not allowed. The next point must be a separation between tribulation in general and the "great tribulation" Most tribulation is man's fallen nature running amok. It is this tribulation I have no problem with since I have experienced it many times. But the "great tribulation" is G-d's wrath on those unrepentant people who refuse to acknowledge Messiah. A far different thing. Something that is not for salvation of souls but for purification of the Earth at the time of the apocalypse I am a person who holds to the premillenial point of view concerning the "rapture of the saints." |
|
|
|
Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Sept 5, 2005 8:10:29 GMT -8
And what of all of the righteous ones that have suffered since the foundation of the world? I don’t think that anyone is saying that G’d is punishing His faithful ones during the end time, but that they will suffer because of righteousness….as His people always have. Yeshua stated, “I have given them your word. The world hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that you would take them from the world, but that you would keep them from the evil one.” – Yochanan (John) 7:14-15 I believe this sums up Yeshua’s plan for His people. At any rate, I believe we are getting off track. If you would like to discuss the issue of “The Rapture”, please continue in a already existing thread or start a new discussion. If you wish to address my statements, please copy them and paste them into the new or already existing thread. Any further replies on the subject of “The Rapture” or on the subject of believers going through the coming tribulation will be removed from this thread to the appropriate thread. That's alright, we still love you Shalom chaver, Reuel |
|
|
|
Post by Chizuk Emunah on Sept 5, 2005 14:08:50 GMT -8
|
|
|
|
Post by Wavy_Wonder on Dec 7, 2005 21:10:56 GMT -8
|
|
|
|
Post by Chizuk Emunah on Dec 8, 2005 5:20:47 GMT -8
Wavy,
Could you post a short synopsis here? That is a very long thread you linked to.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wavy_Wonder on Dec 8, 2005 14:05:30 GMT -8
^Well, I believe there will be a future, visible, physical temple system with the Levites doing the service.
References? Scriptures like Malachi 3:3, Isaiah 66:21 and various Ezekiel passages. Also, the declaration and promise which is as sure as the Davidic covenant that the Levites will always minister to YHWH to offer offerings (Jeremiah 33:17-22).
|
|
|
|
Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Dec 13, 2005 17:31:35 GMT -8
Amein v'amein
Berachot b'shem Yeshua HaMashiach,
Reuel
|
|
|
|
Post by Deafeye on Jan 7, 2006 22:15:02 GMT -8
It might be interesting to point out... as over as this might seem, that every single sacrifice in the Temple was for UNintentional sin... hence, I see no problem with animal sacrifice. Plus, I want to have a good bar-b-q with the Messiah, and someone has to go get the cow for us and kill it...hehe.
~Shalom~
|
|
|
|
Post by Deafeye on Jan 7, 2006 22:22:13 GMT -8
Absolutely. According to the prophet Zechariah, sacrifices must be re-instituted and then abruptly stopped in the end of the days. Also, in order for the "Abomination of Desolation" to take place, the Temple must be standing. Now the exception to all this (there's always an exception) is that a Mishkan be reconstructed instead of a Temple. Given our understanding of modern events, the more I think about it, the more likely I think it is for a Mishkan (Tabernacle) to be constructed instead of a Temple. Actually, if you think about it... "The Holy Place" could also be considered the Temple Mount. The Altar always gets built first... so all we really need is an Altar to fulfill Daniel's prophecy. The Altar always gets built first. So whether it is a Temple, Mishkan, or just the Altar... wich seems easiest concerning the times we live in, the Abomination of Desolation can take place in any of these... I think. I might be wrong, though. ~Shalom~ |
|
|
|
Post by Deafeye on Jan 7, 2006 22:35:46 GMT -8
^Well, I believe there will be a future, visible, physical temple system with the Levites doing the service. References? Scriptures like Malachi 3:3, Isaiah 66:21 and various Ezekiel passages. Also, the declaration and promise which is as sure as the Davidic covenant that the Levites will always minister to YHWH to offer offerings (Jeremiah 33:17-22). Those are awsome scriptures!!! Gimme MORE please so I can indulge in them! ~Shalom~ |
|
|
|
Post by Ruchamah on Aug 10, 2007 6:30:40 GMT -8
Hi all, I am  that the discussion ended! Is it possible that the PURPOSE of the sacrificial system was to cleanse the FLESH of the person who wanted to enter the House on earth? In other words, is this the protocol of visiting with YHWH ? For instance, if we wanted to go visit the President of the United States, wouldnt we follow a certain protocol for doing so? We woud be SURE to get a list of all the do's and dont's, and we would follow it to the letter! Is the Levitical priesthood part of YHWH's protocol? I am a newbie, so please bear with me! Ruchamah |
|
of Mosheh and the Prophets, from morning until evening. 
that the discussion ended! Is it possible that the PURPOSE of the sacrificial system was to cleanse the FLESH of the person who wanted to enter the House on earth? In other words, is this the protocol of visiting with YHWH ? For instance, if we wanted to go visit the President of the United States, wouldnt we follow a certain protocol for doing so? We woud be SURE to get a list of all the do's and dont's, and we would follow it to the letter! Is the Levitical priesthood part of YHWH's protocol?
