Messiah must be "cut off"

[Mark]

Messiah came and was “cut off” before the destruction of the Temple which occurred in 70 AD according to Daniel 9:26 (See also Haggai 2:6-9). Jewish theologians reject the idea that the Messiah must be “cut off” and the need for the Messiah to sacrifice Himself for the sins of mankind) In Zechariah 12:9-10 it is prophesied that YHWH, Himself, will be pierced and Israel will mourn His death as the loss of her firstborn Son (See also Zechariah 13:1-6).

The account of Yeshua’s crucifixion as seen in prophecy by David in Psalm 22 is uncanny. If we weren’t able to see it on our own, while in the physical trauma of the most brutal form of execution ever devised, Messiah Yeshua quoted from these Scriptures for us, so as to validate them as being fulfilled:

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34)
why art thou so far from helping me,
and from the words of my roaring?
O my God, I cry in the daytime,
but thou hearest not;
and in the night season, and am not silent.
But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
Our fathers trusted in thee:
they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
They cried unto thee, and were delivered:
they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
But I am a worm, and no man; (Matthew 27:39)
a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
All they that see me laugh me to scorn:
they shoot out the lip,
they shake the head, saying,
He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: (Luke 23:35)
let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him. (Matthew 27:39-43)
But thou art he that took me out of the womb:
thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
I was cast upon thee from the womb:
thou art my God from my mother's belly.
Be not far from me; for trouble is near;
for there is none to help.
Many bulls have compassed me:
strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
They gaped upon me with their mouths,
as a ravening and a roaring lion.
I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint:
my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels. (John 19:34)
My strength is dried up like a potsherd;
and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; (John 19:28-30)
and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
For dogs have compassed me: (Luke 23:36)
the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me:
they pierced my hands and my feet.
I may tell all my bones: (John 19:32-33)
they look and stare upon me.
They part my garments among them, (John 19:23-24)
and cast lots upon my vesture.
But be not thou far from me, O LORD:
O my strength, haste thee to help me.
Deliver my soul from the sword;
my darling from the power of the dog.
Save me from the lion's mouth:
for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
I will declare thy name unto my brethren: (Hebrews 2:10-12)
in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
(Psalms 22:1-22)

[brotherblake]

Refutation – In order to see how untenable is the position of the interpreters who rest their faith on such grounds, we must follow again the only just rule that can be adopted, and explain the verse from its context. We find in the same chapter (verse 24), "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people, and upon the holy city, to make an end of sins, and to make a reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring to everlasting righteousness, and to seal up visions and prophets, and to anoint the Holy of Holies." The seventy weeks are evidently a given period of time elapsing from the destruction of the first to the destruction of the second temple. See Jeremiah 29:10, "For thus saith the Lord, that after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon, I will visit you, and perform my good word towards you, in causing you to return to this place." And Lamentations 4:22, "The punishment of thine iniquity is completed, O daughter of Zion, He will not again lead thee into captivity." According to the vision of Daniel mentioned in chapter 7 of his book (the seventh and following verses), he saw that the fourth animal (including Rome) would persecute Israel for a great length of time; and he meditated on the visions which were not clear to him, because he had not received a special revelation concerning the latter captivity of the Jews. Hence he says, at the conclusion of the seventh chapter, verse 28, "As for me, Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me, but I kept the matter in my heart." The same prophet had similar doubts regarding his visions when he heard the announcement (spoken of in chapter 8) of the cessation of the continual sacrifice, and of the destruction of the sanctuary, and of the overthrow of the people (see chapter 8:13-26). He then thought that the predicted length of Israel’s captivity related to that state into which his people then were precipitated; he therefore was told, "Conceal this vision, for it shall be for many days." This communication the prophet found at variance with the one made to Jeremiah, that the captivity would last for seventy years only. We have to explain on this occasion the meaning of "the evening and the morning," mentioned in the original Hebrew of chapter 8:14.* This expression is illustrated in Zechariah 14:7, "And in the eventide there shall be light." The prophet Daniel perceived in this that the darkness of Israel’s troubles would be dispelled by the light of Salvation. See, in addition to this Jeremiah 30:7, "And it is a time of trouble for Jacob, and he shall be saved from it." The reverse state of destruction is depicted by gloom and darkness. See Amos 8:9, "And I shall darken the earth on a day of light."

Chapter 8 verses 13, 14 of Daniel, amply show that the prophet labored originally under the opinion that the intended protraction of the captivity was owing to the iniquity of the people, and that they would pine in the state of banishment for two thousand three hundred days (signifying years); therefore he prayed to God to remove His wrath and anger. Neither did the angel of the Lord acquaint him of the actual termination of the last captivity. Daniel was only given to understand, that the cessation of prophecy would extend to the whole length of time necessary for the expiation of the sins of his people, for then would be fulfilled the prediction mentioned at the close of Lamentations 4:22, "Thy iniquity, O daughter of Zion, is ended; He shall no more cause thee to be led into captivity." Regarding the last exile of Israel, the prophet Ezekiel has recorded similar expressions in his book (chapter 22:15, "And I will scatter thee among the heathen, and disperse thee in the countries, and will consume thy filthiness out of thee." The complete restoration, which we expect during the latter days, will be crowned with "everlasting righteousness" (see Daniel 9:24). This is confirmed by the agreement of many prophecies. See Isaiah 51:6, "And my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished." Jeremiah 23:5, "And I will raise up unto David a righteous scion, and a king shall reign and prosper, and he shall do justice and righteousness in the earth," Isaiah 11:4, 5, "And he shall judge the poor with righteousness, and righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins." And at that time all Israel will be designated by the term righteous. See Isaiah 60:21, "And thy people will altogether be righteous." Again, ibid, chapter 61:3, "And men shall call them oaks of righteousness." The Psalmist likewise affords a testimony, since we find in Psalm 72:7, "In his days the righteous man shall flourish, Jerusalem will then be called, the abode of righteousness, the holy mount." We shall then say, in the words of Jeremiah (chapter 23:6), "The Lord our righteousness." The Messiah himself, according to the same prophet (chapter 23:6), will assume the title, "The Lord our righteousness," as we have already shown in the Chapter 19 of this work.

The words of Daniel (chapter 9:24) may be taken in the following sense: -- "And vision [prophecy] shall be sealed up," that is to say, it will be finally determined and confirmed, for we find a repetition of the same words with the same signification in Job 33:16, "And he sealed up the chastisement." It cannot, therefore, be pretended that prophecy will then discontinue altogether, for we read in Joel 3:1, "And it will come to pass afterwards that I shall pour out my spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophecy." The epoch of the restoration will thus completely restore the forfeited boon of Prophecy.

We return now to the explanation of the conclusion of verse 24, in Daniel 9. "And to anoint the Holy of Holies," which means that at the restoration of Israel, the Holy of Holies, or the Temple, will receive its new consecration after having lain desolate during the whole period of the captivity. An extensive description of that solemnity is to be found in the prophecy of Ezekiel, chapter 43.

The seventy weeks spoken of in Daniel 9, are enigmatic terms, conveying the various epochs of Israel’s fate during their second occupation of the Holy Land and their subsequent exile. The first epoch, designated in chapter 9, verse 25, expressed by seven weeks, is evidently in allusion to Cyrus; for it is said there, "Know and understand that from the giving forth of the word to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the anointed prince there shall be seven weeks." Now, we know well from the prophecy in Isaiah 45:1, that Cyrus was called the anointed king, for we find there, "Thus saith the Lord to his anointed king" (to Cyrus), etc.; and in the same chapter the Lord announces, "he shall build my city and send back my captives." The termination of sixty-two weeks is remarkable for the cessation "of an anointed king," that is to say, Israel is according to that prophecy to be bereft of his last ruler. "And there is none for him, there is no anointed ruler for the people of Israel." The cessation of a ruler over Israel is simultaneous with the fall of the Temple, and, consequently, alluded to the conquest by Titus, when Israel ceased to exist as a nation, and was deprived of its Temple, its ruler, and its country. If the Christians take an impartial view of this chapter of Daniel, they cannot possibly imagine that it alludes to Jesus, who suffered on the cross nearly half a century before the exile of Israel.

The contradictory remarks made by Christian expositors on this chapter, afford ample proof of the scanty notions they have of its real signification. Scientific readers who are anxious to obtain a view of all the contradictions which beset the path of the Christian expounders of Daniel, will find an interesting account given in Abarbanel’s commentary on the book of Daniel, which bears the title Mangne Hayeschungah (the Fountains of Salvation).

With this chapter, we shall conclude the elucidation of Scriptural passages cited by Christians in support of their faith.


* It is singularly remarkable that these words, upon which the prophet laid peculiar stress (see ibid., verse 26), are omitted in the English version.

[brotherblake]

Zechariah 12:10 says,
"And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they shall look unto Me because they have thrust him through; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first-born."

This verse is obviously speaking of a HUMAN BEING mourning so acutely, that it's like mourning the loss of your only child. It doesn't say anything about G-d being pierced. You are reading into this what you want to read.

[brotherblake]

"while in the physical trauma of the most brutal form of execution ever devised"

Flaying, burning, and many other punishments (enacted by Christians upon Jews) are much worse then crucifixion.

[Mark]

How convenient, Blake, that these Scriptures must be interpretted so concretely when Isaiah 52-53 must be allegorical.

If the salvation Daniel and these other prophets are describing refer simply to Israel's return from Babylon, but the prophet describes it as a salvation that will endure forever, how do you account for the destruction of Jerusalem that will follow and the numerous holocausts that Israel has suffered since then? Did Adonai not keep His promise?

Rabbinical Judaism, as with Fundamentalist Christianity has largely resorted to defending it's position against her enemies instead of seeking Adonai in truth.

My appeal to you, Blake, is to open yourself to the possibility that these Scriptures may be designed to draw you closer to Adonai in your daily relationship with Him. It is my experience that in so doing, you will find the Messiah.

[brotherblake]

"If the salvation Daniel and these other prophets are describing refer simply to Israel's return from Babylon, but the prophet describes it as a salvation that will endure forever, how do you account for the destruction of Jerusalem that will follow and the numerous holocausts that Israel has suffered since then? Did Adonai not keep His promise?"

Certainly the redemption from galus will occur, may it be quickly, and in our lifetime. The spirit of idolatry is a strong enemy, we have always been as a people especially susceptible to that spirit. It's a blinding spirit, and it doesn't hasten geula but is an obstacle to it.

" appeal to you, Blake, is to open yourself to the possibility that these Scriptures may be designed to draw you closer to Adonai in your daily relationship with Him. It is my experience that in so doing, you will find the Messiah."

You of course are correct. The scriptures are there to draw us to G-d, and strengthen that relationship. Because you have never experienced true Judaism you are susceptible to the lies. Do you think your ancestors who chose death rather then baptism did not have a relationship with G-d? Do those who spend their lives studying not have an understanding of scripture? I wait and pray for Mashiakh every day, that doesn't mean I have to accept the numerous false ones.

[azaliah]

Rabbi Mark is really nice about it, I can see he is a kind man.

Let me lay it out for you in simple terms, the way I see it.

The issue for you is not your disbelief.

You see, your a Jew. A Jew that follows the Law, you have no excuse, the condemnation towards you is that you know the truth, and in your heart you reject it.

Eve in the Garden, knew well that her actions were disobedience before she did them, she was "tempted" with the possibility of having the "godlike" ability to distinguish between good and evil.

Her choice was to choose "her own way" rather than God's way. This has been an unspoken Jewish precedent ever since.

We had God before us, in His power and magesty, a pillar of fire. that wasn't enough for us was it, we wanted a "man-king" not a theocracy, not a God that couldn't be touched with human hands, that had not shared in our infirmities.

You see, we can't control God. However, we can control man, so we did as we have always done, in our arrogance we attempted to find some way, to gain autonomy over ourselves from God.

We wanted to make our own way, do our own thing. God in His love for us granted this request. Why he knew, granted or not, we were going to do just exactly as we wanted, that is the Jewish way after all.

So God also gave us the Law. He was so clear on this Law, and we (out of the hardness of our hearts) imagined this Law could be manipulated, since there are ways out of rules.

The law he gave us was centered around the "blood sacrifice" the atonement. This law in our hands now gave us the power we so desperately wanted, not only to rule our own lives, but to order others lives as well.

Blindly, (and ignoring the prophets) we formed our Oral Traditions and gave them more power than the Law itself. We spiritually defecated on the law, as we were so careful about the name of G-d, we had no thought or consideration for His purpose or His will.

The Prophets sent to us warned us over and over again not to do this, but ages of slavery and death and disease and famine and pestilence and heartache could not convince us not to be bull headed. So what did we do, we killed the prophets.

Nonetheless, God is unendingly kind, as the has spoken from the beggining that a perfect atonement would one day be given. He gave us His very own son, not so amazing really seeing as God has revealed Himself in many times in the past in some way.

But we hated his Messiah, the Messiah we longed so much for. Why? Because he refused to cater to our rebellious nature, or because he pointed out the truth that we all knew was true, that our debauchery of the Law didn't hold water with an almighty God. I guess some how we convinced ourselves God was stupid and wouldn't notice, but surely he noticed.

The Sacrifice of Oblation and the other atrocities of Antiochus Epiphanes, made us zealous and prideful in our stance. Little did we know, the attack on Israel at that time was not a chance for the Hasidim to prove how pios we are, but was a condemnation that we weren't pios at all, and deserved what was coming to us.

You see what I am getting at don't you. We knew all along Jesus was The Messiah, just as we hated God them because he didn't let us have our own way, we hated His Son, and still there is evidence we hate him now.

I have no idea what God would have chosen for the future of the Law had the Messiah had not come, but I know he would not have chosen his people to be idolaters, fornicating with the ancient impurities (the wickedness of the heathen god's, mystic sorcery) the Talmudic Sages have turned us to.

The Mitzvot was a pure and Godly thing, and all those who follow the Mitzvot will be saved, and those that refuse to follow it are no better than an Arab Muslim in faith, like Ishmael's every action a defiance.

[zionlion]

Beautifully said, azaliah.
Thank you.