Is Jesus Michael?

[veggirl]

Daniel 10:13, "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia."

Jude 1:9, "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Revelation 12:7, "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,"

I am just putting out a few bible verse here, the SDA believe Michael to be Jesus, I have asked a SDA this question but was never given a good enough answer.
I would rather here it from someone that believes more in the Messianic faith,,
I also read some online and it seems that Michael seems to be an important individual in heaven..

I just want to understand whats going on here?
Anyone care to explain?

Thank you

peace&love
bri'gette...

[Tyler]

The Jehovah's Witnesses believe this as well.

Judaism has always understood there are various ranks of angels. Some angels (both good and evil) are over nations. In Daniel we read about the conflict between the Prince of Persia and Michael; two high ranking angels - one the Chief angel of Persia (bad) and the other the Chief angel of Israel (good). So, traditionally Michael has always been identified as the Chief Guardian Angel of the People of Israel.

Is Michael really Yeshua? No. Here's why. Michael says to the devil, "The Lord rebuke thee!" (he rebukes in the Name of the Lord). Yeshua does not say/do this; Yeshua personally rebukes devils (He does it in His own Name so to speak).

[veggirl]

Tyler,

Thank you, can you give me verse's of this please? Where in the bible does it say this?
I don't believe that Michael is Yeshua, I believe Yeshua to be God. ONEness but I am asking myself questions about that also.
but my kids attend a SDA school, an I found some bible work they were doing I really didn't understand it much.. so I wanted to ask on this fourm, where I have found a lot of truth in the bible here.

Thanks again..
bri'gette

[lawrenceofisrael]

I think its clear that the faithful angels have a very high position in the kingdom of God and are have received much glory and power from God. They play a key figure in the apocalypse.
Mikhael (may the Lord reward him) is certainly a strong angel. What makes him not to be Yeshua is firstly what brother Tyler said.
Secondly when God appears in the form of an angel it is always said: "The angel of the Lord".
There´s no particular name given to him.

Shalom b´shem Yeshua.

[veggirl]

I need more understanding of this,
any one has any more bible verses?

I am just trying to understand, what makes 1000's of people believe that Michael is Jesus..

Thanks,
Bri'gette

[lawrenceofisrael]

I think its the same why Mormons believe Joseph Smith to be a prophet ( I seek refuge from this theory in my God ) and the same reason why thousands of Christians celebrate Christmas.
They have their own agenda and they do not follow what is true but they follow what they want to follow and/or some don´t know better.

[veggirl]

Thank you, lawrenceofisrael

but I need more, to understand
I use to be a Mormon and they didn't even really read the Holy Bible, so it is not the same at all. ( I am not longer a Mormon Praise Adoni) I have been rebaptized in th name of Jesus like in acts:2:38)
There are some Christians that really don't know the date of Yeshua's B-day so they celebrate, but they could be very good people, like us we didn't know until last year Praise God,
no human man helped us understand the messianic faith, it took the grace of my Father in heaven to help us out of the Mormon church and th pentecostal church, and almost the SDA church,

The people that I know that believe Michael to be Jesus are people that keep all kosher laws or are vegans, and they believe in keeping sabbath also, and believe in the Messianic Prophecies, and the endtimes.. So this is nothing like LDS , or even christmas for that matter its all pagan, even the LDS..

If anyone can explain more to me please?

[dodi]

I found this article explaining how Yeshua is not Michael.

www.neirr.org/Is%20Jesus%20Really%20Michael.htm

[veggirl]

dodi
Thank you so much,
This is what I wanted..

Bri'gette

[yeshuafreak]

i think that michael, gavriel, uriel, raphael, etc... they are all personifications of the Ruach HaKodesh. the seven spirits of revelations, and the seven spirits of isaiah ... thses terms suggest this.

i think that Yeshua is an entity (branded angel by judaism, but i dont think it was an angel, i think metatron was second only to YHVH, higher than the angels, but not YHVH, or God) called Metatron. i started a thread in this in my forum and Davids forum. there is a mystique surrounding metatron that i think can only be cleared up when we view him as Yeshua pre and post incarnately.

if you wish me to clarify my beliefs i will. this subject is a little complex.

[bryce]

Perhaps SDA people believe this because they're told to believe it by their prophet?

[Tyler]

I know I'm jumping back in REALLY late here - my apologies - been away for a while.

Look again closely at Daniel 10 - at the context.

Daniel has a vision of "a man" (not an angel) - he has a meeting with Yeshua. Daniel's experience is pretty much identical to John description at the beginning of Revelation.

In Daniel's vision, Yeshua explains that He was standing against the prince of Persia (spirit of Antichrist/Gog perhaps?) who was fighting Him - and that the angel Michael came and took over for Yeshua so that Yeshua could go and give Daniel the message.

It's all there - Michael helped Yeshua. 2 different people - one a Man and one an archangel.

So why do some believe that Michael is Yeshua? Because they are mistaken or deceived.
It is a false teaching that can lead to the heresy that Yeshua was a created being and not God. And it erases Yeshua's presence from Daniel 10.

[alon]

Apr 3, 2009 11:15:22 GMT -8 yeshuafreak said:

i think that michael, gavriel, uriel, raphael, etc... they are all personifications of the Ruach HaKodesh. the seven spirits of revelations, and the seven spirits of isaiah ... thses terms suggest this.

i think that Yeshua is an entity (branded angel by judaism, but i dont think it was an angel, i think metatron was second only to YHVH, higher than the angels, but not YHVH, or God) called Metatron.

And I think this is blasphemous. I was surprised to see it here.

I do not recall any scripture which states that any angels (ma'lachim- messengers) are "personifications of the Ruach HaKodesh." Worse yet is to call Yeshua "Metatron."

I did however find this:

Encyclopedia Mythica™

Metatron by Ilil Arbel, Ph.D.

The myths of Metatron are extremely complicated, and at least two separate versions exist. The first version states he came into being when God created the world, and immediately assumed his many responsibilities. The second claims that he was first a human named Enoch, a pious, good man who had ascended to Heaven a few times, and eventually was transformed into a fiery angel. Some later books adopt the first version, some the second, and in other literature both are combined. There are even two versions of the name Metatron, one spelled with seven letters, the other with six, lacking the Hebrew letter "yod." The Kabbalists explained that the six-letter name represents the Enoch-related Metatron, while the seven-letter name refers to the primordial Metatron. Despite the elaborate debate, the origin of Metatron's name is not clear. Many attempts have been made to explain it, but none of them is satisfactory, since the word has no real meaning or root in any language. Some authors think it may be derived from private meditations and visions, or even glossolalia. This article concentrates on the Metatron-Enoch version

Metatron is one of the most important angels in the heavenly hierarchy. He is a member of a special group that is permitted to look at God's countenance, an honor most angels do not share. In the literature, Metatron is often referred to as "the Prince of the Countenance."

In the Babylonian Talmud, Metatron is mentioned only three times, but the references are important. All three relate to the problem of Metatron's immense power, which may have caused some people to confuse him with God. In later literature he was even mentioned as the "lesser YHWH" -- a serious blasphemy for the strictly Monotheistic Judaism. Later, some authors tried to resolve the issue by showing how the Hebrew letters of the name of a mythical predecessor, the angel Yahoel (later to be entirely identified with Metatron), were the same letters as those in the name of YHWH. Another legend states that God himself named him so, out of affection. A fascinating legend tells of a particularly interesting and famous Jewish heretic, Elisha ben Avuyah, who saw Metatron sitting by God's side, occupying the same type of throne. This made Elisha suspect that two equal powers operated in the universe -- God and Metatron. The legend continues to explain that he made a false assumption, which indeed cost Elisha his position within the Jewish community. According to these scholars, God permitted Metatron to sit because, as God's scribe, he recorded the good deeds of the Nation of Israel. This story works very well with two of Metatron's many heavenly tasks: a scribe and an advocate, defending the Nation of Israel in the heavenly court.

And it went on, getting no better as it did.

To equate Yeshua, Eternal God, with a created being and build myths around Him is to be expected of a pagan world. But to try and push this nonsense onto a bunch of Messianic believers is rather odd- can't sat the enemy doesn't have chutzpa! What is even stranger is that this wasn't challenged, and harshly!

[alon]

Aug 15, 2009 11:18:27 GMT -8 Tyler said:

... Daniel has a vision of "a man" (not an angel) - he has a meeting with Yeshua. Daniel's experience is pretty much identical to John description at the beginning of Revelation.

In Daniel's vision, Yeshua explains that He was standing against the prince of Persia (spirit of Antichrist/Gog perhaps?) who was fighting Him - and that the angel Michael came and took over for Yeshua so that Yeshua could go and give Daniel the message.

It's all there - Michael helped Yeshua. 2 different people - one a Man and one an archangel.

So why do some believe that Michael is Yeshua? Because they are mistaken or deceived.
It is a false teaching that can lead to the heresy that Yeshua was a created being and not God. And it erases Yeshua's presence from Daniel 10.

I guess I have trouble thinking that it was Yeshua and not another ma'lach/messenger/angel that brought the message to Daniel. Angels often appeared as men to men. Look at the three messengers who appeared to Avraham. The two who went on to Lot were angels, and the one who stayed was Yeshua. So both can and do appear as men.

But look at what it says if another angel, however powerful, can stand up to Yeshua and even prevent Him from getting to Daniel. Not even simply putting this angel equal to God, it paints him as more powerful. That God needs the help of another angel says He isn't God. He's just "a god." I can't buy that.

Dan C

[alon]

Dec 12, 2008 16:15:58 GMT -8 veggirl said:

...
I am just trying to understand, what makes 1000's of people believe that Michael is Jesus..

So am I. But now I have to wonder how anyone claiming to be Messianic, or even Christian can believe some of the nonsense posted here!

The difference in Michael and Yeshua is that of the difference in a created being and his creator; to wit, infinity!

Dan C

Col 2:10 "And it is in union with him that you have been made full - he is the head of every rule and authority."

Col 1:16 "because in connection with him were created all things - in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, lordships, rulers or authorities - they have all been created through him and for him."

John 1:3 "All things came to be through him, and without him nothing made had being."