Yeshua speaking to Gentiles.....

[rory]

All,

I am attempting to compile *ALL* the verses and references where Yeshua is speaking specifically to Gentiles. I need help getting these verses.

Reason: in discussing Hebraic roots with various Christians, generally the statement comes out "Well, Jesus was speaking to Jews there" with the implication it has no 'meaning' to the Gentile. My reply back is about remaining 'intellectually honest' with the text, for if we remove all the verses where Yeshua is speaking to only 'the Jews', then there are very few verses that apply to the Gentile (according to my Christian friends).

I want to provide a list to those friends in sort of a refutation of that blanket statement: "well, Jesus was speaking only to the Jews there".

so any help can be appreciated!

thx
rory

[Mark]

Actually, Rory, the argument that you are trying to make will not help the Messianic perspective. If Messsiah Yeshua were talking to gentiles, then, being all-wise, He would phrase his statements in ways appropriate to be understood by pagan gentiles. He did not. His teachings were primarily given to Jews or those attached to Judaism and thus should be understood and interpretted within the context of Judaism. Here's the kicker: in Matthew 28:19-20, He says, " Go, therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: teaching them (gentiles) to observe ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I have commanded you (Jews).... Messiah Yeshua taught Jews within the context of Judaism. He didn't say go and teach all nations all the things appropriate for salvation that fits within the realm of their gentile (pagan) culture. He said to teach them ALL THINGS. One of the things that He taught to a gentile was this:

You worship what you do not know, we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. (John 4:22 MKJV)

[rory]

Mark,

Yes, I do know what you are saying.... I was just hoping for the extremely FEW verses that are specific to the Gentile - so I can easily refute the "well Jesus was talking to Jews there" argument.

I am thinking of the Woman at the well and a few other passages that I can throw out - and state that if one is INTELLECTUALLY HONEST with the argument, then the gentile ONLY needs to worry about these 5 (six, seven) passages where 'Jesus' is specifically talking to the gentile.

HOPEFULLY that argument will shake some brains up, and then see the absurdity of the argument, and realize that all the scripture was meant for all - in a Hebraic context of course....

so back to the question:

What are the bible verses where Yeshua is SPECIFICALLY talking to Gentiles?

thx

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Shalom achim,

I think you both have some excellent points to meditate on. But, we do have to keep in mind that anything our Jewish Rabbi (Yeshua) taught as far as doctrine goes (the way one should walk) would be something a Jewish Rabbi would teach to a talmid (student)...This would include any current or future student, whether they be Jew or Gentile (proselyte). I understand the crux of the argument to be how we are to practice our (Jew or Gentile) faith based on the statements of our Rabbi Yeshua.

Understanding that context, I don't believe that there are any statements made by our Master that were specifically for the Gentiles in regards to how one should practice their faith (outside of becoming a talmid of this Rabbi we know as Messiah). Our Rabbi didn't have two different groups of disciples. He didn’t operate a cast system. He understood and taught that two different groups would have to be combined into one fold.

“I have other sheep, which are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will hear my voice. They will become one flock with one shepherd.” – Yochanan (John) 10:16

These disciples would be taught Judaism, Messianic Judaism, the Judaism of The Lion of Judah.

Stepping down from my soap box now...

Reuel

[azgdt5120]

Is it valid to call a new born in the new pesaj a gentile? One that has been enlightened to embrace and love the ? (as the spoken dvar of Elohim)

[Mark]

That's an interesting question and a valid one. Paul, in Romans 2, pretty much defines anyone who embraces as a Jew- while at the same time dismisses anyone who rejects as not being Jewish.

However, to claim a Jewish identity, when not of the seed of Abraham, is to deny the invitation promised by Adonai to all nations (Isaiah 2:2, 56:3-7).

This is the way I like to explain it-

God owes redemption to the people of Israel through His promise to Abraham. I am a gentile, and as such, He owes me nothing. Yet, He has invited me to fully participate in this relationship all the same. This is magnificent grace.

Yet, at the same time, I must not arrogantly come in and redefine this grace to accomodate the validity of my own relationship. He is still the Lord, God of Israel. They are still His covenant people. My invitation is to be included into that relationship, not to be justified apart from it.

[azgdt5120]

Thank you Mark for your replies, they are truly appreciated. Even when I attended for many years a christian church it was clear to me that Israel was the choosen people of God. Hearing a pastor preaching about them being excluded didn't make much sence to me. In fact hearing alot of the preachings that goes around the evangelical christian churches and compare them with the Scriptures is what brought me to the conclusion that something was not going into the right path.
At the same time, Paul also states that the new members of Elohim's people should not be subject to jewish traditions such as circumcision for instance. Am I understanding correctly Paul's teaching to me according to the context in which it was taught?

[Mark]

I believe that it was the misapplication of circumcision that was being denounced by Paul. Take a look at this thread:

theloveofgod.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=corinthians&action=display&thread=2012