Curt
Full Member
Posts: 136
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Post by Curt on Apr 25, 2006 11:25:43 GMT -8
Hi, wonder if you could send me another link to your website. Had all my e-mail links and everything erased because I hadn’t checked in with my e-mail in so long. Noticed your recent guidelines posted and checked back and it was about the same as posted in 2004. But I guess I didn’t read it back then. I especially like guideline #3. Since I believe both the Old and New Testaments are the Word of God.  I discuss the Bible with a lot of different faiths in person and discuss their particular beliefs according to Bible doctrine. I’ve talked to Lutherans, Catholics, Pentecostals, Jehovah Witnesses, The Church of Latter Day Saints and Seventh Day Adventists and what I do is ask them specifically about what their doctrines mean to them so I don’t get a slanted view. I met a Seventh day Adventist and asked him about the Replacement Theology you spoke. He had never heard of it. Please explain about Replacement Theology since I don’t know what it means and figure there are others on this website like me who don’t know. |
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Post by Mark on Apr 26, 2006 3:50:14 GMT -8
There is a book published by the 7th Day Adventist Church called "27 beliefs of the Seventh Day Adventist" (or something to that nature. I gave my copy away about a year ago; but it is available at many public librarys and your local SDA Church probably can loan you a copy of it. If I had a copy in front of me, I could find the specific page (and if you would like I will investigate further this week-end); but based upon Matthew 21:43, it is taught that because Israel rejected Yeshua as the Messiah, the Church has become the new Israel. This doctrine is supported by their interpretation of 1st Peter 2:10. I would caution against asking anyone who is attached to a particular faith the specifics of what that denomination believes. I have several who classify themselves among my group; but I shudder to think of what they might suggest as being foundational doctrines of the Messianic faith. (No doubt, there exist some who feel the same way about me!) Another thing to remember is that not all SDAs are the same. In fact, I have reports that from the highest levels of the Church, there is pro-  rhetoric. It's a little pre-mature to get all excited; but we see that there is a shift, at least from the caustic aversion to , to at least a willingness to use the word. In my various communications around the country, I've come into contact with pro- "Saturday Baptists", Seventh-day Salvation Army, even a United Pentacostal Church that taught (though they were required to meet on Sunday, the pastor taught that Saturday was the biblical day of rest.) It goes without saying, "You can't judge a book by its cover." |
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Post by Blake on Apr 26, 2006 15:43:20 GMT -8
Unfortunately you are right. I was raised an Adventist (and still share a majority of their beliefs) but they staunchly support replacement theology and even go as far as denouncing Israel for their treatment of Arabs in some cases. Its such a contradiction, to accept the kosher laws, the weekly sabbath, (and in some cases the annual holy days) while clinging to replacement theology.
I am ashamed to report also that some Adventist churches during WWII supported Adolf HItler and even turned over fellow church members of Jewish descent.
Now, although they are replacement theologists they definately are not generally anti-semitic and have several messianic congregations.
They don't call the doctrine replacement theology, you'd probaly get a reaction from the "Church as Israel" doctrine.
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Post by Blake on Apr 27, 2006 8:19:29 GMT -8
Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not endorsing this falsehood in any way. I'm just providing as much information on it as I know from experiences within the Adventist Church.
Adventism sprung from the followers of William Miller who taught that "Jesus Christ" was to return in 1843 (and later in 1844 due to a miscalulation). The Millerites were primarily Methodist and included a large number of Baptists, Anglicans, and Lutherens. Being as the Seventh-day Adventist despite many Judaic practices is by far primarily Primitive Evangelical Protestant denomination of Christianity.
After their Christ failed to appear on the Karaite reckoning of Yom Kippur the Millerites (Or commonly called "Adventists" for their belief in a premillienial Second Advent before Miller it Protestantism still held to a postmillenial or amillienial second coming) they went back to study scripture to see where they went wrong. Through some "Scriptural Gymnastics" as it were they came to the conclusion that Yom Kippur in 1844 was when Christ the High Priest entered the Holy of Holies in Heaven to begin an investigative judgment. Ellen Harmona 17 year old Methodist girl (who would later marry a man surnamed White) endorsed this interpretation with a vision from God. The majority of Adventists followed the Endorsers of this teaching and out sprung the SDA Church. It wasn't until several years of gathering on Sunday that they learned of the Sabbath from Seventh-day Baptists. Further study on their part involved keeping the laws of Kosher. Other than that the only other Judaic belief (which is arguable, not all Jews have this view) is a belief in the finality of death. Sometime misomred "soul sleep" Adventist don't believe in a immortal soul being detached from the body at death.
None of these Judaic practice were learned from Judaism, but from Scripture study. They still cling to many Primitive Protestant ideas such as the Trinity and Displacement Theology.
Thier Prophetess Ellen White stated that the Gospel went the the Jew first after the Crucifixion but when Stephen was stoned it she says the God went to the Gentiles with the Gospel and the title of Israel was stripped from the Jewish people and given to the Church and Juruselum being destroyed soon after these events and the murder of Ya'akov HaTzaddik brother of Y'ho'shua HaMoschiach by the High Priest, Yarushalim was destroyed as further punishment.
Its not really drawn from Scripture at all but is tradition of an Ethnically Cleansed Antinomian, Anti-Judaic Christianity endorsed by False Prophet.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on May 8, 2006 15:18:57 GMT -8
Todah rabah achim! That was a good answer to Curt's question.
Shalom,
Reuel
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Curt
Full Member
Posts: 136
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Post by Curt on Jun 20, 2006 13:54:19 GMT -8
Thanks for the explanation. If I understand correctly Replacement Theology means the same thing as the church is Israel. Some people believe it is not biblical and some believe it is biblical. Interesting concept, I had never thought about that specific topic before. Even though I speak to different faiths and ask them their views on their doctrines I realize as you said that they can be just as biased as those who oppose their views. That's why the Bible is the ultimate source of truth. |
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jun 21, 2006 22:28:52 GMT -8
Shalom Curt,
Amein!
In Yeshua's name,
Reuel
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Post by Lady In White on Mar 4, 2007 20:24:49 GMT -8
Since the name of "Ellen White" was mentioned... some years ago I spoke to a former (now saved) priest from the Mormon Church, and he said that she was well known among the writings of the Mormon Church because she wanted to be a Mormon "priest(ess)" and was rejected. As I recall, the prophesy that really began the Seventh-Day Adventests denomination was one in which she supposedly toured the Temple in heaven and saw the tablets of the 10 Commandments and the fourth (regarding Sabbath) was fourth on the tablet (I'm not sure if it was on the right or left), and was bright and shining in gold (as I recall). Of course, if she'd really been in the Temple in heaven, the tablets would have been written 5 and 5, not 4 and 6 (or 6 and 4).
Gloria
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Post by jimmie on Apr 24, 2014 10:01:58 GMT -8
Original/ Replacement
Adam/ Christ/second Adam
Cain/ Seth
pre-flood generation / post-flood generation
Ishmael/ Isaac
Esau/ Jabob
Rubin/ Judah and Josheph
1st table of stones/ 2nd table of stones
Those who left Egypt/ those who entered promised land
Nadab & Abihu/ Eleazar & Ithamar
First born sons of Israel/ Levites
Tabernacle/ Temple
Shiloh/ Jerusalem
Mahlon/ Boaz
Saul/ David
Job’s first 10 children/ Job’s second 10 children
Judas/ Matthias
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Post by Questor on Apr 24, 2014 15:58:13 GMT -8
Original/ Replacement Adam/ Christ/second Adam Cain/ Seth pre-flood generation / post-flood generation Ishmael/ Isaac Esau/ Jabob Rubin/ Judah and Josheph 1st table of stones/ 2nd table of stones Those who left Egypt/ those who entered promised land Nadab & Abihu/ Eleazar & Ithamar First born sons of Israel/ Levites Tabernacle/ Temple Shiloh/ Jerusalem Mahlon/ Boaz Saul/ David Job’s first 10 children/ Job’s second 10 children Judas/ Matthias |
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Post by jimmie on Apr 25, 2014 11:35:32 GMT -8
God can and has replaced people/things. That fact alone doesn’t justify usurpations. Witness:
Jacob’s children/ Joseph
Dathan & Abiram/Moses
Aaron & Miriam/Moses
Absalom/David
Adonijah/Solomon
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Post by alon on Apr 25, 2014 15:26:21 GMT -8
God can and has replaced people/things. That fact alone doesn’t justify usurpations. Actually, most of the things on your lists have one thing in common; God gave the calling, and once made He did not revoke the calling. So for the early Catholic Church to arbitrarily change the calling of the Jews as God's chosen people was actually diabolical. And for contemporary pastors and church leaders not to root out all vestiges of anti-Semitism and replacement theology is unconscionable. However almost all of them prefer to hold to what they were taught by seminaries still locked into catholic theologies. Dan C |
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observant and they do not advocate anything un-biblical in observance, or as described in rules #2 & #3. 
