Conflicts in the Last Passover Account

[jo-b]

Shalom,
I pray that everyone here had a wonderful Pesach Seder, and are not having too difficult of a time keeping Kosher

I have been reading and doing some studying in the Four Testimonies, because of a friends interest in the Hebrew calendar, and noticed that there is (or must be) a serious error in the B'rit Chadashah (or at least in all the translations I have found) I wish I could read the original writtings, whether they were written in Aramaic, Hebrew, or Greek so I could know for certain whether it is just the translations or what. I can read Hebrew and some Aramaic, but not Greek, and since everything we have today has been translated somewhere down the road, none are probably perfect.
The reason for my concern is the fact that the B'rit Chadashah says that Yeshua was killed on Pesach.
But it also said He celebrated the Pesach Seder with His talmidim.
Here is what I see... YHWH is VERY exact with His timing, right down to the milli-second. All the feasts were set up as a shadow of what was to come. Pesach is a 7 day festival in Yisra'el, but there are very specific mitzvots as to what is to be done each day leading up to the Seder, and on each day of the actual festival. For instance, the Shabbot right before Pesach is called the Shabbot HaGadol, or High Holy Shabbot, it was the day that the Pesach Lamb was chosen (purchased). That would have to have been when Yehuda betrayed Yeshua. Then the day before the Pesach Seder is called the Fast of First Fruits; it was when all the firstborn males of Yisra'el fasted, (made their bodys pure) as a thanks offering to YHWH that they were not killed during the final plague. To me this would conincide with the physical torture that Yeshua endured. The next afternoon at 3:00pm, (still the same day as firstfruits for Jews) was when the Pesach lambs were slaughtered and the blood was splashed onto the altar. Yeshua would have had to die at that exact same moment for Him to qualify as the Pesach lamb (the lamb of redemption)
I agree with this. What I don't understand, is that the B'rit Chadashah says that Yeshua's last meal was the Pesach Seder. How could that possibly be?
I think that His last meal was in fact the Shabbot HaGadol Seder. First of all He tells His talmidim to prepare for the Pesach, as it is after 2 days (which would mean the third day from when he made that statement). They go to the house to celebrate the Seder, and He gives the Berakhah over the wine and bread, just as one would do at all the Shabbot Seders. The fact that He also went outside after the Seder to pray to Abba, tells me this Seder couldn't possibly be the Pesach Seder. It is a commandment that NO ONE is to go outside their homes till morning light (Sh'mot 12:22). I do not believe that Yeshua would break that mitzvah. Also the fact that the Sanhedrin did not want to kill Him during the festival, for fear of a riot. Yeshua could not have eaten the one and only Seder meal (He was in Yerushalayim, so only one Seder meal) and still be qualified to be the lamb.

I need to figure this out, or it will bug me for a long time........ ;D
Any help would be greatly appreciated

Jodi

[Nachshon]

It also says that the Talmidiym came to him on the first day of Unleavened Bread and asked him where to prepare the Passover.
What the Gospel does not say: "I have desired to keep the Passover with you."
What the Gospel does say: "I have desired to keep this passover with you."
I believe that the Seder that the Rebbe ate with His Talmidiym was a teaching Seder, or a practice Seder if you will, and that He was actually sacrificed on the fourteenth of Aviv. That would have Him sacrificed in time for the beginning of the fifteenth of Aviv, the first day of Matza, in time for the Seder.
Now, I go by the Aviv callendar and the Karaite reconing, so I believe that Firstfruits would be the first Yom Rishon after the first day of Matza, that would put the resurrection of the Rebbe coinciding with Bikkurim.

Shalom,
Nachshon

[messimom]

Shalom,

For us Hebrew babes (referencing experience not gender LOL), what is "Bikkurim" in ingles por favor...

Shalom,

Messimom

[Nachshon]

"Bikkurim" is firstfruits. I really preferr "HaMo'ed Reshit" or "The Festival of firstfruit" but "Bikkurim" is more common.

[Yitzchak]

My personal belief is that this meal was actually a Seudat Mitzvah (completion of commandment)

This is a meal that a Rabbi would have with his students at the completion of teaching. In modern Judaism this would be a meal celebrated at the completion of a tractate of Talmud. It would also reference wedding celebrations, Bar Mitzvah, and Brit Milah.

I believe that as Yeshua was finishing the teaching of His Talmidim, that He then partook of this final meal with them, where He sealed His teachings in the breaking of the matzo, and the drinking of the cup. This was the evening before he was taken. It was the next day that He was taken, and tied to the altar in the same way that the Passover lamb was. Then at 3PM, when the Passover lambs were being slain, he gave up of His spirit and became our Passover Lamb.

Shalom,

Yitzchak

[jo-b]

Thank you Yitzchak, I believe you are quite right!

I have been going through a copy of an original Peshitta, (that is the oldest known written form of the B’rit Chadashah in Aramaic). It predates all written copies in Greek, and even Hebrew (including the Shem Tov Hebrew copy of Mattityahu) that have been found intact so far. It helps to have friends in Yisra’el that have access to original and exact copies of original documents! And I am thrilled to say I believe I have found the answer to the mystery! Hallelu et Adonai!

Here is what I have found (translated by me from the original Aramaic text)

In Mattai (Matthew) 26:17
The disciples to Yeshua said to Him, where do want you us to prepare for you to eat the Paskha. He and said to them go to the city to a certain man and say to him our master says my time has arrived. It with you will perform I the Paskha among my disciples. And His disciples did as commanded them Yeshua and they prepared for the Paskha. (period, end of sentence!)
When it was evening he reclining was among twelve his disciples and while they were dining he said truly say I to you that one of you will betray me and it made them very and they began to say to him each one of them is it I my Lord…..

In Marqus (Mark) 14: 12
And in the “time” (this word in Aramaic: “waw-beth-yod-waw-mem-alep” means a specific period of time but is often translated into English as the word “day”.) first of the unleavened bread in which slay the Yehudeans the Paskha were saying to him his disciples where desire you us to go to prepare for you to eat the Paskha. And he sent two of his disciples and said to them go into the city and behold will meet up with you a man who is carrying a vessel of water go and follow him and where he enters. Say to the lord of the house our master said where is the guest house where I may eat with my disciples the Paskha. And behold he will show you an upper room large that is furnished and prepared, that place make ready for us. And went out his disciples and came to the city and found just as he had said to them and they prepared for the Paskha.
When it became evening he came with his twelve and while they were reclining and eating said Yeshua truly say I to you that one of you who eats with me he will betray me….

In Yukhanan (John) 13:1
Before now the feast of Paskha, known had Yeshua that had arrived the time that he would depart from this world to his Father and he loved his own that were in this world and up until the end he loved them. And when was done supper it placed was by him by Satan into the heart of Yehuda the son of Shimon Skaryota that he would betray him. he but Yeshua because he known had that everything had given the Father into his hands and that from G-d he came and to G-d he was going. He arose from supper and laid aside his garments and took a cloth and girded his loins…..

So my conclusion here is that not one of these four Gospels say that Yeshua’s last supper with His talmidim IS the Pesach Seder, but that He had sent two of His disciples to prepare the Seder for Him.

Shalom,
Jodi

[Nachshon]

For one thing, you are mistaken about the Peshitta. I am a fan of it, too. I just got an interlinear edition of it. I own two translations. However, it is not original. The earliest mss of it are third or fourth century. It has been edited to match the Greek in some places. While I think it is much closer, it is not perfect, in my humble opinion. I have to run and get ready for Shabbat.

[Mark]

It is definitely true that the Messiah's crucifixion did not occur on the day of Pesach. This is a most holy Sabbath and would not likely have been a day scheduled for a public execution, even by the disdainful Romans.

Yet, there is another answer to the apparant conflict in Scripture. In John 18:28, after Messiah Yeshua had had the feast, the priests were careful to preserve themselves so that they would be able to eat of the Passover. It is generally assumed that the "Passover" is refering to the Feast of the Seder where the Paschal lamb was consumed; but the Passover sacrifice may also refer to the Peace Offering which could be offered even as late as the Sabbath following the Passover. Either way, there is no conflict in Scripture, only a lack in our information about the Scriptures: information, I may add, which is less confusing if we have a grasp on the Jewish cultural and traditional context in which these texts were written.

[adam7gur]

Maybe this article about the Essenes helps :Sabbath Observance.
""In regard to Sabbath rest they are more scrupulous than other Jews, for they not only prepare their meals one day previously so as not to touch fire, but they do not even remove any utensil [rabbinical term, "muḳẓah"]; see Sabbath]; nor do they turn aside to ease nature. Some do not even rise from their couch [comp. Targ. to Ex. xvi. 27; Mek., Beshallaḥ, 5], while on other days they observe the law in Deut. xxiii. 13. After the easement they wash themselves, considering the excrement as defiling [comp. Yoma iii. 3].