Mel Gibson's "The Passion"...

[azumah]

I thought it was a good article for the most part. One thing that I object to in this, as well as most Christian ananlysis of the crucifixtion, is puting blame on certain groups of people for the actual punishment. The fact that seems to be lost on people who debate whether or not the Jews or the Romans committed this act is that Yeshua is the GOD. HE prayed is the garden for HIS father's will to be done, and it was. Yeshua created the wood that HIS cross was made from as well as the material that made up the nails that were driven in to HIM. If HE wanted to, HE could have easily wiped out all those who were against HIM (something HE will do when HE returns). HE willingly did this for us. All or our sin put HIM up there. No blame goes to any one individual (Jew or Roman) more than the other. This is a burden we all have to share equally.
Another thing I'm having a a hard time understanding is the constant analysis given to Mel Gibson in regards to this movie. Let me say personally that I have little doubt that Mel Gibson is an A-1 scumbag. He displayed himself naked in at least a couple of his movies, and has also shown himself to be intimate with nude women other than his wife in Braveheart. He, I believe, has uttered blasphemies as well as numerous other senseless profanities. Figuratively speaking, I wouldn't let him shine my shoes. That being said, I'm having trouble understanding why there is such a move to use his shortcomings to criticize the Passion. GOD can use scumbags to draw people to HIM. I believe most people who have looked at "Madonna on the Rocks" have been inspired spiritually and not frowned upon Da Vinci's homosexual lifestyle and membership of fleur-de-lis. Granted, it is a very Catholic rendition of Mary and Yeshua (just as the Passion is) and does contain homosexual and blasphemous subtleties (pretty much all are too minute for the casual observer to notice). The exact same thing can be said for pretty much every bible translation ever made. Don't get me wrong, I believe it is very important to keep these things in mind. If we are going to start drawing such strong lines, we really need to examine every single line that we draw.

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Shalom Azumah!

A close reading of this article reveals…<br>

In addition, the Bible teaches that Messiah died to atone for the sins of us all. The sin of all humanity was the reason for his crucifixion, and this was by the design of God.

And, I am total agreement with the following statement made in the article…<br>

Any film on the Passion should include some explanation that the Romans bore ultimate responsibility, since they alone had the power of capital punishment. A rider or introduction with such an historical explanation would be essential.

This is true. They were the ones with the smoking gun (so to speak). Just because it was our sins that was the ultimate cause for His death on the cross does not mean that the ones who carried out the crucifixtion where blameless for their actions. At any rate, the point the article is making is that if these things are not made clear, the heathen unsaved person can easily misunderstand what happened and the fruit will be anti-semitism (the hatred of the Jewish people). And, this is exactly what has happened in history. Historically speaking, passion plays where used to provoke violence against the Jewish people. Why would this be so different?? Out of love for the Jewish people, we should make this historically accurate to show who physically killed Messiah. I am also in agreement with the following statement made in the article…<br>

In addition, we are concerned about Mel Gibson’s recent interview with Peggy Noonan (for the March, 2004 Readers’ Digest). Mr. Gibson shows both ignorance and insensitivity when he equates the Holocaust with other tragedies, such as Stalin’s crimes. Hitler sought to eliminate a whole people because of who they were. Stalin’s goal was not to eliminate the Ukrainians whom Mr. Gibson mentions, but to see all bow to his dictatorship. The Holocaust is unique. If Mr. Gibson does not make a strong statement accepting the historical record of the Holocaust, he undercuts the very testimony of the Gospels he seeks to put forth.

We urge Mr. Gibson to help further the message of his film by the following two actions.

1. To repudiate Holocaust denial and anti-Semitism in the strongest possible terms, including an affirmation that anti-Semitism and the Holocaust are unique tragedies.

2. To include a rider or introduction to make it clear that only a small number of Jews sought the death of Yeshua, and these were the Roman collaborators. Any curse upon the Jews for the death of the Messiah is absolutely wrong and dangerous.

I have heard that Mel does not want to go there out of respect for His Earthly Father. But, I believe He should do this out of respect for his Heavenly Father, and His Jewish Messiah.

Shalom,

Reuel

[azumah]

I guess I'm confused about how Yeshua can willingly allow HIMSELF to atone for our sins and be executed at the same time as HE did. The same could not be said for someone like Gary Gilmour who was executed by the state of Utah via firing squad in 1977. In addition to twice trying to commit suicide while on death row, he uttered the words, "Let's do it" shortly before he was fired upon (It has been said that these were his last words, but in fact he spoke briefly with a Catholic Priest shortly afterwards). Even though Gilmour willingly went to his death, there is no doubt that the firing squad is what killed him. This same logic can't be applied to the MESSIAH. HE did it willingly, and could have stopped it at any time. For arguements sake, we could pretend HE isn't the MESSIAH and see where that takes us. In doing that it is very clear that the Romans killed Yeshua. They (not all the Jews in Israel, but just the ones present) would not have asked Pilate to crucify HIM had the matter been in their control. It is worth noting that when this event is analyzed from a legal perspective, the whole thing is a travesty. Had it been carried out properly, Yeshua would have been set free on a technicallity seeing how the Sanhedrin bribed Judas to reveal HIS location. This was an illegal act, and was a direct violation of the legal code at that time. I'm not saying the people involved are not blameless. They, as well as everyone else, will be judged according to GOD's holy . Something that was broken by many people during the 12 hours that preceded Yeshua's death.

The thing that has to be taken into account with Mel Gibson is that he is doing this for the money. I don't know that he really cares about what the Passion play has caused historically. For the sake of being politically correct, I'm sure he publically opposes what has taken place in the past. But if he is similar to anyone else in Hollywood, his top priority is himself. The artlicle you posted calls Gibson ignorant and insensitive. This is hardly a news flash. Since the Passion, he has acted in "The Singing Detective," a film that contains gratuitous sexual content and innappropriate language, and "Mad Max 4: Fury Road," yet another installment about a character who wanders post apocalyptic wastelands killing everything with a mohawk. Not exactly someone who comes off being very conciencious. Any statement he makes will be very calculating and will likely benefit him either financially or professionally. Father Theresa he is not.

Regarding the denial of the holocaust, that is something I have had trouble finding information on. I have read where Gibson's father questions the number of Jews who were killed during that period of time, but I was not aware that he denied that it even took place.

Of course I believe he should make it clear that there is not a curse on the Jews. In reading the book of Acts, as well as the epistles, this is very obvious. However, I don't know if Mel Gibson really believes this. He is a member of an occultic church that practices and believes many non-biblical traditions. That may be asking him to go against his beliefs.

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Azumah,

Good points.

Shalom,

Reuel

[Curt]

Would like to address some things about the movie "The Passion of the Christ".

Reuel states: " Historically speaking, passion plays where used to provoke violence against the Jewish people. Why would this be so different?? Out of love for the Jewish people, we should make this historically accurate to show who physically killed Messiah. I am also in agreement with the following statement made in the article"

Curt: I watched the movie and also took my daughter. I wanted to see the movie because I wanted the imense suffering of Jesus to be impressed on our minds. I didn't have any problem determining who actually killed Jesus. It was quite clear the Romans nailed Jesus to the cross. I think the Bible would support that Ponius Pilate didn't want to execute Jesus for what ever reason. The Bible would support that it was the Jewish leaders who incited the crowd to ask for Jesus's crucifixion. Even Mel Gibson doesn't blame the Jews for His crucifixion. Mel says all of mankind is responsible for the death of Jesus. This film has been out for awhile now and I know of no violence that has been initated against the Jewish people. Most people aren't seeing the movie for any antisemitic reasons. They also know that Jesus was a Jew.

Also in the Quote ". Any curse upon the Jews for the death of the Messiah is absolutely wrong and dangerous.

Curt: The idea about the curse probably comes from the Bible. Those in the multitude asking for Jesus's death said "Let His death be on their heads and their children's heads." I believe all mankind who has not accepted Jesus is cursed.

I would like to see a rider stating the number of Jews crucified by the Romans during their rule. It is abundantly clear from the movie who carried out the torture and crucifixion of Jesus. People aren't going to the movie beause of antisemitism and they are coming away with a deep appreciation for Jesus's suffering. His suffering is a personal experience for them.

Azumah states: " I don't know that he really cares about what the Passion play has caused historically."

Curt: I think he believes their isn't going to be any anti-semtism from his film. People are coming away from the film with deep sorrow for their responsibility in Jeus's death.

Azumah states: "Of course I believe he should make it clear that there is not a curse on the Jews. "

Curt: That can always be taken care of by other people. Mel made this film to show the imense suffering Jesus underwent.

Azumah states: "The thing that has to be taken into account with Mel Gibson is that he is doing this for the money"

Curt: That is one reason. Noone goes into a business venture hoping to lose money. We should all hope he makes a bundle of money so more Bible films will be made.

[azumah]

Those are all excellent points to consider. We are all obviously a long ways from reaching a final conscentious about this.

For the record, I have heard 250,000 Jews were crucified by the Romans. I do not know whether or not that number is accurate though.

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Good points Curt. I am not taking a stand against this film. I am just raising some issues that concern the Jewish people. It is only fair, and loving to be sensitive to these things because so much hate, and violence has been done to the Jewish people in the name of Christianity. "The Cross", the name "Chrisitianity", and "Jesus" are all images, and thoughts that only bring the Jewish people pain. It is our duty to do all we can to avoid the future repeating itself, and it would foolish for us to think that the future could not repeat itself. It all starts very innocently as it did in Germany many years ago. We cannot let our guard down.

Shalom,

Reuel

[Sam]

I've also seen it twice and I think that it was pretty good, not perfect but more acceptable than most movies.

Here's an interesting article:
www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/2/22/100029.shtml

There was another article in newsmax about James Caviezal getting struck by lightning a couple of times but I couldn't find it. I'll post it if I do.

Shalom,

Samuel

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Samuel,

Thank you for sharing the article. These are interesting testimonies that are given in the article. I have yet to see the movie. In Adonai's timing....

Shalom chaver,

Reuel

[Rick]

I think this speaks volumes, we have here a snapshot of the mind behind "The Passion";

Passion of the Christ creator, Mel Gibson, is apologizing for events that led to
his arrest Friday on alleged drunk driving charges and for statements he made to
sheriff's deputies. Entertainment website TMZ.com says the arrest report accuses
Gibson of saying "The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world," and
asking the arresting officer "Are you a Jew?" The Los Angeles Times says it has
independently verified the report's authenticity. In a statement released over the
weekend, Gibson issued an apology for his "belligerent behavior" and claimed that he
suffers from what he called "the disease of alcoholism." The statement says: "I
acted like a person completely out of control when I was arrested and said things
that I do not believe to be true and which are despicable." Jewish groups are
fuming over Gibson's reported remarks. Rabbi Marvin Hier of the Simon Wiesenthal
Center says, "If that's what he said, even under intoxication, it clearly shows that
Mel Gibson has a problem with Jews." The head of the Anti-Defamation League, which
complained that The Passion of the Christ had anti-Semitic overtones, calls Gibson's
apology for Friday's incident "insufficient."

Mat 7:20 Therefore, by their fruits you will know them.

[Firestorm]

In vino veritas.

[Rick]