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Post by kalev89 on Mar 11, 2024 7:39:21 GMT -8
5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless. 7 But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ.
From a church service I was at recently this verse is used to denounce "Religion" ,rules, regulations the Law. I believe I can answer or speak on it but I would like to see what others have to say.
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Post by alon on Mar 12, 2024 5:16:06 GMT -8
5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless. 7 But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. From a church service I was at recently this verse is used to denounce "Religion" ,rules, regulations the Law. I believe I can answer or speak on it but I would like to see what others have to say. As always, we must read in context:Philippians 3:2-8 2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision [concission, κατατομή katatomē, mutilation]; 3 for we are the true circumcision [περιτομή peritomē, circumcision], who worship in the Spirit of God [God in spirit] and take pride in Christ Jesus, and put no confidence in the flesh, 4 although I myself could boast as having confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he is confident in the flesh, I have more reason: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law [Torah, instructions in holiness], found blameless. 7 But whatever things were gain to me, these things I have counted as loss because of Christ. 8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of [because of] the surpassing value of knowing [the knowledge of] Christ Jesus my Lord, for [because of] whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them mere rubbish, so that I may gain Christ,Rav Shaul is giving a warning, not “denounce[ing] “Religion," rules, regulations [or ]the Law.” He is saying there are a lot of false religions and false torah’s (instructions) out there. So “beware.” Let’s break this down:“2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision [κατατομή katatomē, concission, mutilation]; 3 for we are the true circumcision [περιτομή peritomē, circumcision], who worship in the Spirit of God [God in spirit] and take pride in Christ Jesus, and put no confidence in the flesh,”Most translations do not make the distinction between κατατομή katatomē in vs,2 and περιτομή peritomē in vs. 3. The KJV is one of the few that actually gets this one right. The implication here is there is a difference in simple mutilation of the skin and true circumcision. And as circumcision is an idiom for Torah, or instruction R Shaul is also making a distinction between false worship, false religion, false instruction and the real thing.“4 although I myself could boast as having confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he is confident in the flesh, I have more reason: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law [Torah, instructions in holiness], found blameless.”Here he gives his bonafides. No one has more reason to boast- read that more reason to be proud, than he does. “7 But whatever things were gain to me, these things I have counted as loss because of Christ. 8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of [because of] the surpassing value of knowing [the knowledge of] Christ Jesus my Lord, for [because of] whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them mere rubbish, so that I may gain Christ,” However his pride means nothing. It is a hindrance, something to divest oneself of. He “counts it as loss.” At one time, yes, these things mattered and he was proud of them. They were his life, what he lived for. They were his means of attaining authority. Now, all that matters is He knows ha’Moshiach, the Christ. He lives for Yeshua and not himself. The rest is as the author of Eccleasties writes, “Vaniety of vanities … all is vanities.” (1:2) Now go back to v. 6, “as to the righteousness which is in the Law [Torah, instructions in holiness], found blameless.” Note this is said in the present tense (at least in English translations- not sure about the Greek). But he appears to be saying he is still found blameless according to God’s own instructions in holy living. It does not sound like he is “denounce[ing] “Religion," rules, regulations [or especially] the Law [Torah, instructions in holiness].” Anything but!So I would have to disagree vehemently with the preacher who said this. Alas, it is a very common interpretation of the passage in Christianity. And it is also very common to limit the context so that any thinking individuals do not get the idea they should research and come to their own studied conclusions.
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Post by jimmie on Mar 22, 2024 13:26:55 GMT -8
I don't think Christ ever denounced "Religion", rules, regulations, or the Law.
Jesus did denounced traditions of men that supplanted His (God's) laws which are His(God's) rules regulations and Religion:
Matthew 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
Matthew 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Matthew 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
Mark 7:3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.
Mark 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
Mark 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Paul does likewise:
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
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