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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 1, 2017 12:11:18 GMT -8
I am not accusing anyone of doing anything wrong. I am just trying to understand.
"You shall dwell in booths for seven days. All who are native Israelites shall dwell in booths." Leviticus 23:42
Is dwelling in a booth for seven days a commandment for me?Not that you are doing something wrong if you do, but in terms of being a commandment would it apply to those of us grafted in?
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Post by alon on Oct 1, 2017 17:52:57 GMT -8
Most Messianics I know take it as instruction, but don't really dwell in their sukkoth. It is getting pretty cool at nights here in the great NW. I can't because of medical conditions. So if you safely can I'd say sleep out in the sukkah. The kids will probably enjoy it. But if you can't for some reason I wouldn't worry about it. Just eat your meals there. Again, I'm not a Rabbi so I don't know for sure. But the main thing is we mark the moedim of Sukkot and Sh'mene Atzaret.
Dan C
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Post by garrett on Oct 2, 2017 5:47:31 GMT -8
It's true that weather may simply not allow sleeping overnight. In the past (sorry, I don't remember the resources) I remember reading articles from rabbinic sources that suggest people at least spend time each day in their booth.
I'm on the recovering end of a massive head cold so I don't think I'm going to put myself at risk. But I do plan to simply spend time "being" in the booth. I'll have a cup of coffee, try to piece together a good prayer or meditation, maybe even check the news. The idea is that we also just use it as a place to exist as was once done in times past. Put a comfortable chair in there. That will help.
garrett
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Post by garrett on Oct 5, 2017 3:33:26 GMT -8
So, I was able to assemble my sukkah (booth) relatively well. And I actually think it's pretty close to rabbinical standards (!) It's attached to the back of my house. I used hooks that were already placed on the outer walls of my house. I strung rope through the eyelets of a canvas tarp, which is pretty big, and I secured the bottom of the tarp with some heavy bricks and two concrete blocks. Finally, I was able to use left over bamboo poles, etc., which I once used as a huge outdoor blind on my front porch. It's pretty fun when you realize just how much you don't need. You just have to think about it and be resourceful. I also placed bundles of flowers and greenery around the edges of the "roof". My wife's generosity allowed me to cut them out of our small flower garden.....
The idea is to make sure you eat something in there each day and just spend time. You can pray, read a book, have coffee (me), check the news on your phone, make phone calls to whomever. Just exist within it. The point is to be thankful for G-d's provision during the 40 years of traveling in the wilderness after the Exodus. He was benevolent even when the Israelites had to live in tents. I dare to suggest that even if you can't build a bonafide sukkah, put up a tent. It probably has a flap you can open to see the sky.
No guilt, just do your best! Yom Kippur has happened. Fortunately, we can come to the L-rd with repentance, asking for forgiveness every day of the year because HaMoshiach has come. So now we do our best with this. And if you can't assemble a sukkah for whatever reason, then keep these seven holy days in mind each day. Both mentally and spiritually.
Happy Sukkot!
garrett
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Post by mystic on Sept 21, 2021 3:14:19 GMT -8
Most Messianics I know take it as instruction, but don't really dwell in their sukkoth. It is getting pretty cool at nights here in the great NW. I can't because of medical conditions. So if you safely can I'd say sleep out in the sukkah. The kids will probably enjoy it. But if you can't for some reason I wouldn't worry about it. Just eat your meals there. Again, I'm not a Rabbi so I don't know for sure. But the main thing is we mark the moedim of Sukkot and Sh'mene Atzaret.
Dan C
I am wondering why this scripture does not address foreigners? So is this meant only for Jews and only for the Native-born? Live in temporary shelters for seven days: All native-born Israelites are to live in such shelters so your descendants will know that I had the Israelites live in temporary shelters when I brought them out of Egypt. I am the LORD your God Leviticus 23:42-43
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Post by alon on Sept 21, 2021 9:38:40 GMT -8
I am wondering why this scripture does not address foreigners? So is this meant only for Jews and only for the Native-born? Live in temporary shelters for seven days: All native-born Israelites are to live in such shelters so your descendants will know that I had the Israelites live in temporary shelters when I brought them out of Egypt. I am the LORD your God Leviticus 23:42-43 All scripture was written by Jews for Jews, and most was to Jews living in Eretz Yisroel. The idea that the Bible was written TO Gentiles everywhere is a false doctrine of the church. However it was written FOR everyone, everywhere. This is an important distinction, and why I see most of Torah as instruction from Adonai instead of law. Now instruction from Adonai is a very serious thing, and should be adhered to when at all possible. And of course there are absolutes in Torah; laws if you will. However one reason it doesn't say "All native-born Israelites" is while it was written TO a people living in a warm Mediterranean climate, it was written FOR everyone; even those in the frozen north. This is why there was a Torah given, which is immutable, and an Oral Torah which could be altered as long as with good reason and it did not violate Torah. It's not a free-for-all though, which is why it is usually the purview of a Beit Din or other competent authority (a shaliach or rabbi, for example).
The Oral Torah was meant to make Torah applicable to all men in all times, all circumstances, and all places. It is instruction in how we walk out Torah. It deals with things like actually living in a sukkah in cold climates, and is why the rabbis garrett mentioned can say just be present in your sukkah for part of each day if the weather where you are is bad.
The problem is that after the Diaspora the Rabbis saw a possibility of Judaism fracturing and being absorbed into Christianity or otherwise being lost. So they codified the Oral Torah, giving us instead the Talmud, and now it is seen as itself immutable and by some (specially the Orthodox) as being equal or or even greater than Torah. We've lost the idea of instructions that can change (within the limits I said earlier) so as to make Torah itself applicable to the Eskimo as well as to the Jew in Israel. However even Talmud makes allowances, saying life and health are the higher laws. So if it is so cold as to be a health hazard don't live the entire week there.
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