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Post by Mark on Sept 9, 2009 4:13:50 GMT -8
One of the common misconceptions is that the Messianic movement is perdominately a gentile anomale- that it is run and caters to a gentile audience who is interested in Jewish stuff.
This is a misconception, as we look at the congregations across the country, demographics in Messianic congregations typically match percentages per capita- meaning, since nationally, the Jewish population is roughly 2%, the average population of ethnic Jew in the Messianic congregations will be the same. Where Jewish populations are more dense, you find a stronger presence of ethnic Jewish population.
This is somewhat skewed because there is a varying opinion on what it means to be ethnicly Jewish. It is also impossible to figure accurately because of the number of groups who consider themselves Messianic and either call themselves by some other name or have a broader definition of what it means to be Messianic. For instance, In Israel, many people are coming into a knowing relationship with Messiah; but retaining their Jewish identity and practices. Does this make them Messianic or does it make them Christian? It all depends upon whose numbers you are reading.
For most of us, it really doesn't matter. We believe that Messiah Yeshua was Jewish: and whether Jew or gentile, we are called to walk as He walked. We believe that Paul, the apostle to the gentiles, retained his Jewish identity and taught new believers across Asia the Jewish traditions and customs, introducing the people more fully to this Jewish Messiah who came as Savior for all the world. His instruction was for us to be imitators of him a he was an imitator of Messiah.
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Post by yeshuafreak on Sept 9, 2009 11:19:04 GMT -8
good post. i like your point on 2%-- i will have to use that in my explanation, because that's a good one.
shalom
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Post by ninjaaron on Oct 10, 2009 5:28:16 GMT -8
Here in Israel, there are a fair number of Messianic Jewish believers, though most of them do not observed the mitzvot as literally as the folks on this board seem to. Some of them actually seek out pork to mark a point of separation from their former understanding of the . Others still avoid it. Most don't think about it (it's very difficult to find here anyway, so it's not as if it takes a lot of work). They tend to continue celebrating the Jewish feasts, but they will also generally observe Christian Holidays. At my church (where probably about half the people are Jewish), I have never seen one of them wearing a Kippah or Tzitzit. They dress like secular Jews.
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Post by Mark on Oct 10, 2009 6:36:01 GMT -8
If you were to invite everyone who calls themself Messianic or Messianic Jewish or Hebrew Christian or Restoration Church to the same football stadium, you'd find a huge variety of folks who dress, eat, talk and practice very differently. Just as you will find that there is a wide range of practices and observance within those who refer to themselves as Jewish. If you were to divide them into groups on a range from secular to Observant you would find the Observant group not need many seats. Yet, when has that ever been different? There are Observant Messianic folk all over the place. We tend not to advertise aggressively and the rest of the religious community would assume that we weren't around, so you don't hear much from or about us.
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Post by ninjaaron on Oct 10, 2009 7:51:51 GMT -8
Well, I do think they are observing the , and so do they, just not all of the commandments in a literal sense.
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Post by Mark on Oct 10, 2009 8:24:47 GMT -8
Yes, while it's a discipline (as with anyone passionate about their own faith and practice) I don't concern myself with other people's interpretation of Scripture or the method in which they apply it to themselves (not to say that I don't consider or appreciate the perspective of others). I have enough to keep myself busy learning and growing and changing on my own.
Something I've come to realize is that anyone (regardless of their knowledge, upbringing or background) can teach me wonderful things about the love of God and the wisdom that comes through knowing Him. The fresh innocent perspective of a little child can present the most powerful message from God for my heart utterly missed from the learned theologian.
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tonga
Full Member
Posts: 243
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Post by tonga on Oct 11, 2009 18:44:13 GMT -8
Please correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that most Jews who become Messianic do come from a secular background. So perhaps that is why the "dress like secular Jews"?
Also, is it true that the Russians (Jewish or not) make up much of the Messianic movement in Israel?
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Post by ninjaaron on Oct 12, 2009 11:16:41 GMT -8
Please correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that most Jews who become Messianic do come from a secular background. So perhaps that is why the "dress like secular Jews"? I believe this is the case, though there are varying degrees of 'secular' here. Most of them believe in Judaism to some extent and a lot of them will wear kippas, make some attempt at keeping kosher, Sabbath observance, fasting on Yom Kippur, and celebrating most of the feasts in one way or another. Of course, this religiosity doesn't always carry into their business dealings or their sexual ethics. But who's to say? Many times the level of observance is an individual thing, outside the Orthodox communities, and they are still refered to with the blanket term 'secular'. Anyway, I've never heard of anyone converting from being a Hasid or anything like that, but I haven't been around too long. People can get killed for that, you know. While the government doesn't carry this out or encourage it, they don't do much to stop it, and most cases of this sort are left unsolved. Jews who convert to Christianity (including secular Jews) can also be refused the right of return to the nation now. You could go on vacation and loose your home for believing in the Lord. It's pretty messed up. This, I'm not sure. I haven't been around here long enough to have a wide acquaintance with the movement as a whole. There are some Russian speakers at my church, and there are some Sabras also. I believe the majority at the Hebrew service are Sabras. At the English service, native English speakers are in the majority (probably evenly split between British and American, with the odd Australian or New Zealander thrown in). The church is officially a parish of the Anglican Church, so that explains all the English folks. There is also a Filipino and an Arabic service in the same building at different times. Don't know too much about the wider movement yet. I'm kinda a home-body.
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Post by zionlion on Nov 8, 2009 9:38:52 GMT -8
Here in Israel, there are a fair number of Messianic Jewish believers, though most of them do not observed the mitzvot as literally as the folks on this board seem to. Some of them actually seek out pork to mark a point of separation from their former understanding of the . Others still avoid it. Most don't think about it (it's very difficult to find here anyway, so it's not as if it takes a lot of work). They tend to continue celebrating the Jewish feasts, but they will also generally observe Christian Holidays. At my church (where probably about half the people are Jewish), I have never seen one of them wearing a Kippah or Tzitzit. They dress like secular Jews. I'm still a work in progress regarding observance. I'm not where I want to be, yet. But it would seem to me that if Jewish believers are purposely seeking out pork, they are either victims of poor leadership or haven't received the indwelling of the Ruach, or both; although it should be self-evident that food requirements of don't change, regardless of change in covenant. Personally, I would love to see the tallit at gatherings of believers.
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Post by alon on Feb 4, 2015 17:36:12 GMT -8
One of the common misconceptions is that the Messianic movement is perdominately a gentile anomale- that it is run and caters to a gentile audience who is interested in Jewish stuff. And no matter how much you explain this to most people, they will still hold this view. Like most things about us, they like to try to phrase our motives for us so it is easy for them to "win" the argument with us in their minds. I wouldn't know about this, however our view is "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Rom 2:29) Our group are all rural American Gentile born folk who feel we've been called out of the "church" to study God's Word and worship Him as He intended; not as some emperor, pope or preacher says we should. The Messianic movement is certainly very fragmented, with most congregations and individuals still trying to figure all this out. Add to this all the Hebrew Roots, some of which try to pass themselves off as Messianic; the light and Messianic light people; most Ebionites (who hate it when you point out they are Ebionite, not Messianic); the cults and who knows what else ... Whenever God does something, the enemy comes against it hard. That there is so much idiocy trying to tag onto the Messianic movement is a sure sign to me we are doing something right.All very true, except that we need to remember that Paul's ministry to the Gentiles was secondary to his ministry to the Jews. He was a very educated man, multilingual and persuasive; and he never missed a chance to preach the Gospel. But if you read closely you'll see he almost always was on his way to a synagogue somewhere, or just leaving one, when the opportunity to tell some gentiles came up and he took it. In his own words, "to the Jew first, and also to the Greek/Gentile:" (Romans 1:16 & 2:10)Dan C
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