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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Apr 5, 2005 21:16:35 GMT -8
Shalom Daniel, Thank you for sharing a little about the articles. The reason why I asked was because we try to encourage members to share information from the articles on the forum for discussion instead of just posting links. In regards to hell, the lake of fire, and the destruction of the wicked, this is a debatable subject and both the TeNaKh and the Brit Hadashah have much to share that would support a literal Hell, the destruction of the wicked, and the eternal "lake of fire". I also don't believe that the scriptures support the idea of "soul sleep". These are all interesting subjects to discuss, although I don't think most of the damage by the Christian church has been caused in these areas. Most of the damage stems from their anti-  , anti-nomian leanings. In regards to the subjects mentioned above I believe there are threads already dedicated to these discussions if you wish to discuss them further. Regardless of where we go when we die....I agree that the Kingdom of Heaven will be coming to Planet Earth. Shalom brother, Reuel |
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Post by bronxlion on Apr 6, 2005 5:27:13 GMT -8
Shalom Daniel, . . . In regards to the subjects mentioned above I believe there are threads already dedicated to these discussions if you wish to discuss them further. . . . Reuel Actually Reuel, I don't see anywhere on this entire site where any of the above subjects are touched on along this vein (that is: hell, an eternally burning lake of fire, destruction of the wicked). Maybe it's time for a new thread. I would love to see what others think on these subjects, seeing light is greatly needed in these areas. Daniel. |
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Apr 6, 2005 5:41:11 GMT -8
There aren't any current threads that discuss the afterlife. Anyone is welcome to go ahead and start one up.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Apr 6, 2005 19:32:26 GMT -8
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Apr 6, 2005 20:39:19 GMT -8
I must have missed that thread on "Soul Sleep." I think that's as good place as any to discuss this topic.
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Post by bronxlion on Apr 8, 2005 10:55:16 GMT -8
I didn't see those threads either, but now I know they exist. And after perusing them, I think your point is quite valid about the subjects being very debatable Reuel. Right now I just want to see what else I can glean from other topics contained in the forum, rather than start a debate that may go on without end. I love the nature of this site, and the way people share the knowledge they have, and also I appreciate the fact that people aren't too shy to ask meaningful questions. They lead to very compelling studies.
Shalom to all,
Daniel.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Apr 10, 2005 23:19:54 GMT -8
Shalom and thank you Daniel. Everyone has something to share. The Father uses us all as we are all on the same journey. I also appreciate people willing to ask meaningful questions and share the light that they have been blessed with. I may not always agree, but hey...iron sharpens iron...  Shalom chaver, Reuel |
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Rut
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Post by Rut on Apr 11, 2005 18:45:00 GMT -8
The Kingdom of G-d and Kingdom of Heaven are euphemisms for the same thing- The Messianic Kingdom. The Messianic Kingdom will be instituted when Yeshua HaMashiach returns. In all actuality, Yeshua was offering to usher in the Messianic Kingdom early if the nation of Israel as a whole would accept it. It nearly happened too, but the Sadducees killed Ya'akov haTzeddik (James the Just), and the Netzarim (followers of Yeshua) started to splinter. However, we will not have to wait long, now that we are in the Acharit HaYamim (the End of Days). :Luke 13:6-9  |
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Curt
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Post by Curt on Apr 12, 2005 10:17:38 GMT -8
II Corinthians 4:3 " But even if our gospel is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ wh is the image of god, should shine on them." Satan does have power here on earth until Jesus returns. God has allowed him this power to show his way does not work. 
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Post by Mark on Nov 10, 2007 6:04:17 GMT -8
It is easy, when reading the teachings of the Messiah, to forget the vast contextual heritage of Jewish tradition. Messiah Yeshua lived as a Jew, taught as a Jew, speaking to an audience who would interpret His sayings from a Jewish perspective.
Whether the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God are one in the same is debatable. It is not a normal practice for in the Scriptures to trivialize the weight of the vocabulary by using synonyms. The words chosen were not simply for artistic flavor. At the same time, the ideas may represent the same reference but from a different perspective. The kingdom of God is often used with an idea of greater intimacy: that it is open and with specific invitation. The kingdom of heaven is spoken of something as that which is out of reach or as an abstract.
To the Jewish mind, the kingdom of God fits the the geographic boundaries of the Promised Land: that which has been promised to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and later Moses. It is also and equally understood to be the covenant promises in as they relate to the political kingdoms of the earth: that Tzion will be the religious epi-center of all the world (Isaiah 2:1-3).
We still get stuck in our linear, concrete thinking with the idea that the kingdom is or it isn't: either the Kingdom is here and now (as the Jehovah's Witness preach) or it is somewhere in incubus, waiting to be manifest to us at a later time. This demonstrates our limited grasp of the oriental (Eastern Mediterranean) ideas of covenant and the state of existence.
Abraham lived as though the Promised Land and the Promised Messiah were his, though he did not physically come to inherit it in his lifetime. He lived in the kingdom as possessor of that kingdom. This explains the way that Messiah, and later Paul would talk about the kingdom as a current reality. It IS a current reality. The fact that you can't see it with your eyes is irrelevant.
Messiah said, "The kingdom of God is not seen though observation: neither shall they say, 'Look here!' or 'Look there!' For, behold, the kingdom of God is within you!" (Luke 17:20-21)
Paul talks in Colossians 1:13, of the kingdom of the Messiah (as God's dear Son) with the tense of completed action: that we have already been translated into that kingdom.
Here's the point:
The kingdom of God is a settled reality that is the fundamental basis of all that we should say or do. Paul said "You are the light of the world, walk as children of light." (Ephesians 5:8).
We're not to be sitting out this earthly existence as though we were waiting at the bus stop. We are more than conquerers, bearing dominion in a land that just doesn't realize that it's already been conquered. The kingdom of heaven is at hand... not looming, but a settled reality in the current state of affairs. Adonai, our God, is in control of all things (if you believe the book of Proverbs) and we live as His subjects in a world that is consumed with a futile rebellion.
This doesn't suggest that there is not more to come. We have been put on notice that the King is coming to take issue with those who would deny Him. Yet, His current forbearance and mercy is not evidence that His position as Sovereign and Lord is in any way compromised.
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Post by Ruchamah on Apr 27, 2008 20:33:02 GMT -8
Hey Mark, Thank you for an EXCELLENT post regarding the Kingdom. The Tanakh seems just LOADED with information about the Kingdom on earth. We pray for it to come all the time, but it seems noone REALLY expects its arrival visibly. Let me just post some *last moments together* stuff: Act 1:3 He presented himself alive to them after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God.
Act 1:6 So when they had come together, they asked him, "Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?"
Act 1:7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.
Act 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth." They had spent 3 years with him prior to his death, and then these 40 days discussing the Kingdom after his resurrection. The anticipation of the disciples was that NOW was the time when the WHOLE house of Israel would be restored, the Davidic king would be on the throne and the would go forth out of Jerusalem and the nations would make their way, sabbath to sabbath, new moon to new moon, to worship in Jerusalem. Isaiah in particularly speaks a ton about how wonderful it will be. I think the disciples all believed it was imminent, and i think the incredible response to the gospel that even GENTILES could now be partakers of Kingdom blessings was due in large part to the fact that the whole world sensed the time for KINGDOM was now. They were right! But is wasnt yet time to restore it to ISRAEL: first the Word had to make its way to the uttermost ends of the earth, disciples must be made. A PEOPLE, a LAND, a LAW and a KING seem to be the reqwirements for a KINGDOM. The territory, as so aptly stated in Mark's post, with definable borders, has yet to be fully reclaimed as KINGDOM LAND. We are also in the process of reestablishing our grip on the KINGDOM LAW ( ). Thanks to the overtime work of the Ruach, this is coming along qwite nicely. We also will need to appoint the KINGDOM KING, as outlined in Ezekiel 37 (seems to be a guy named David). A PEOPLE, a LAND, a LAW and a KING seem to be the reqwirements for a KINGDOM. And in the case of a theocracy, i would add the additional reqwirement of the Temple, which is also in process as I type, at least on a basic planning level. I would like to get a bumper sticker made that reads like this: The first time He came, the religious people were looking for the Kingdom and missed the Messiah. This time, the religious people are looking for the Messiah and will miss the Kingdom.With Kingdom longing, Ruchamah |
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Post by darrell on Jan 26, 2010 15:07:42 GMT -8
I agree with those who see the kingdoms as synonomous.
There is debate whether there is more than one gospel. As one who holds that there is one gospel, and that is the gospel of Messiah, I reference the multiple "gospels" that refer to the same message:
The gospel of Messiah, the gospel of the kingdom, the gospel of God, etc.
The kingdom, as I see it, is that which God rules over.
It will be "on earth" one day, as it is "in Heaven", complete.
God bless.
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, anti-nomian leanings. In regards to the subjects mentioned above I believe there are threads already dedicated to these discussions if you wish to discuss them further. 
