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Post by The 614th Mitzvot on May 4, 2005 15:50:08 GMT -8
One should explain something before retreating from it; Notzari Y'hudi.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on May 4, 2005 19:58:07 GMT -8
I am a bit confused. Let us continue in the spirit of brotherly love. All issues not dealing with this thread should be addressed in separate threads. I would agree that the weightier matters embody the whole of ...just with the right heart and perspective. If we neglect any one commandment knowingly, we neglect the most weightiest matter of all...to love Adonai our Elohim with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength. Several of you have already touched on the right heart motives for keeping . Does anyone have any other insights? Shalom v'ahava chaverim, Reuel
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on May 5, 2005 9:18:32 GMT -8
So am I. I'm not sure if he was agreeing with me or not.
614th Mitzvah, Can you explain your response better?
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Post by azgdt5120 on Dec 16, 2009 19:21:05 GMT -8
When we start seeing and living through Yeshua's mindset we will shake this earth regardless where we are. When I start to care about my jewish brother by considering his deepest love for obedience to and its teachings instead of his human imperfections, I will grow in the love of Abba. When I start to show compassion to my brother's needs, problems, dissapointments, or anything he might be suffering for, and do something about it, I will grow in the love of HaShem. When I finally figure out what the esence of is: love righteoussnes and compassion, I will live in the love of HaShem.
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Post by alon on Mar 20, 2015 13:54:56 GMT -8
Have we become smug in our liturgical orthodoxy? Has our mission become to debate the Church rather than lead men to Messiah? LROL! Mine has always been thus! I'm a Shamaimite, after all. You can be separated from them and yet still live among them. How we as Messianics are to do this is an area of halacha that is sadly lacking in development. However just adhering to the basics, like dietary laws does get us noticed, and therefore the possibilities to witness are increased. This is all part of the angst piled on us by Christianity- another area of their woefully inept interpretation and exigesis of scripture. Read the book of Acts and you'll see that collections were taken for other Messianic communities in need, NOT for general disbursement to and thus waste by pagans. We are to take care of our own families first and then other Messianic believers. Really, there is enough need there that there will be little left, and that should go to help the Jewish people in Israel and in troubled areas of the world. We are promised blessings for blessing them, so I gotta believe He wants me to do so! If God puts a specific Gentile in your path and lays it on your heart as a BURDEN and NOT as GUILT then by all means help out. But then is when you must trust Him to provide the means. Just jumping in and helping when not burdened may leave you in trouble, because I never see that God is bound to honor and provide for our foolishness.
Dan C
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Post by alon on Mar 20, 2015 14:24:33 GMT -8
By Matt Friedeman, PhD April 28, 2005 (AgapePress) - John Wesley once said that religion did not consist in orthodoxy, or right opinions. Indeed, "A man may be orthodox in every point; he may not only espouse right opinions, but zealously defend them against all opposers .... He may be almost as orthodox as the devil, (though, indeed, not altogether; for every man errs in something; whereas we cannot well conceive him to hold any erroneous opinion,) and may, all the while, be as great a stranger as he to the religion of the heart." This is where I have to be careful. The pastor over at the AoG where I go to mingle with the heathens (and I tell them so too! ) Does have some very good sermons. I often kid him if he isn't careful I'm going to have to start calling him Rabbi! But one of the points he made many months ago is that the longest 18" in the world is measured from the head to the heart. I would say the reverse is true too. We can be so involved intellectually that we forget the love and compassion, but we can also be so emotionally centered we have no real grounding in proper doctrine.
I used to do martial arts, and my system had three main power principles and pages of concepts based on these principles; all meant to fine tune structure and motion to apply maximum effective power to your opponent. However these were all meant to be learned a little at a time, just like learning to extend ourselves past our own comfort zones in applying the finer points of the law.
Some people memorized and analyzed the principles and concepts of power to death! These people invariably suffered from what we called "paralization of analization," their effectiveness being severely curtailed. Others never understood these rules and so, while an instructor could help them to improve to a point they never reached their potential as effective fighters. God is a God of order, and He created body mechanics and power as well as the finer points of the law; so bear with me as there IS an analogy here!
The analogy: you may be given the gift of prophecy, being able to parse out in minute detail all the finer points of the law; and still you may miss the mark by never truly believing, trusting or applying these things. You may also be the most compassionate person in the world, and yet without a proper grounding in the law your efforts and compassion are wasted, or wose turned to evil use. We must be cognizant of the areas we are gifted in, yet always strive to overcome the natural tendency to become complacent and just dwell in those places. We need to stretch ourselves. The truly dangerous opponent is the one who knows and can apply all those finer points of power generation.
Dan C
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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 20, 2015 15:40:10 GMT -8
I used to always be bothered with the verse Matthew 26:11
"You will always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me."
Even when reading in context, it seemed to kind of come out of no where.
After a lot of contemplating on this verse, I think Yeshua was telling us to make the most of the people G-d places in our lives right now. We shouldn't worry about how much to provide, or how to allot what G-d provides. We should just make the most out of the moments G-d hands us to provide, and give the most we can. He is G-d. When He needs us to give, He will give us what we need to do so.
Each of us have a part to play, and it is very small individually. However, that is still powerful because each of us need to be acknowledged as valuable individuals. The church I used to attend had what felt like a "let's take on the world's poverty" approach in our community. It was inefficient and depressing because we were just handing out food and gas cards. Call after call came as the news of these cards spread, and of course, we just kept running out of cards. Then the conversations became about, how much should this person get, and when do we decide we can't hand anymore to someone who keeps calling. Meanwhile, we were so bogged down with the task of saving and allotting, that we didn't even take the opportunity to get to know the people to whom we were giving.
G-d know our limits, and we can't take on all the world's problems. However, we do need to make the most of the opportunities He entrusts to us.
What we run into a lot of times with people who feel driven to help anyone and everyone is actually a lack of faith in G-d. G-d knows we can't solve poverty, but I personally feel a bit better when I remembers we can't fathom the value of any one person either. So I just decided to make the most of that one person. We should look for what G-d has given to us as individuals to do. Meanwhile, we should just have faith that G-d is doing what He does, knows each person and their needs, and pray for our brothers and sisters as they do their own individual part.
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Post by alon on Mar 20, 2015 22:32:40 GMT -8
... Matthew 26:11
"You will always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me."
I always thought this verse was an admonition to use one's resources (in this case time) better. There will always be need, however to minister to this need we must first develop the resources to meet this need. A counselor would go to school before hanging out their shingle and helping people. Likewise the Disciples had to learn from Yeshua before they could go out and preach Him and do the works required of them. Yeshua was only with them for @ 3 yrs., and there was a lot to teach them. The poor, or perhaps better "needy" would still be there after He was gone. Until then, they couldn't help much any way. Their main job at the time was to learn.
Dan C
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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 21, 2015 8:00:56 GMT -8
Yes, I agree it is an admonition to use resources better.
I am saying it is G-d who knows how we should use our resources, when we should use our resources, and gives us the resources when we are called on to use them. I will provide context for my thinking.
I was trying to reconcile Matthew 26:11, "You will always have the poor with you, but you will not always have Me." with what is said a chapter before.
Specifically Matthew 25:37 For I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You? And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it for Me'.
I was intrigued by his references to the word "Me" in both of these passages and was trying to understand what seemed at first to be contradictory. He seemed to say "do for others to do for Me", and then turn around and say,"hey, forget the others, do for Me".
I think the connection is that each individual has unimaginable value, and therefore our giving needs to reach beyond the worldly and material. This is something we need to trust to G-d.
The oil was her resource, but G-d gave it to her. He gave it to her specifically for that moment and for the person right in front of her. He knows how to allot and give what is His. In that moment, she simply had the privilege of being able to give what was His.
I agree we need to develop the resources, but we also need to recognize the resources we have are G-d's anyway. Therefore, when we have the resources to use for the moment G-d gives us to use them, we need to use them fully and in faithful gratitude that it is He who gives.
Sometimes, we need to focus on the value of a moment as well as the person G-d shows us in that moment. Instead, people often get caught up in worrying about future moments of need that may come and the others who will need. That is where faith that G-d will provide and is the ultimate provider is so important.
Instead of worrying about who else may need this, we should make the most of the person in need G-d has put right in front of us. We should do the most we can with what He gives us when we are called on. We do not have the wisdom to go any further than that moment anyway. Giving is easier and more fulfilling when we trust Him. He is the one with the ability to plan, allot, and He will provide for our future needs.
I don't want to worry about what is beyond me. I cannot scrimp, and save enough. It is not mine to begin with. I cannot give in the heart He needs me to if I become possessive of what is His and try to take on what is beyond me. I just want to be grateful for the opportunity to give, be grateful that G-d has provided me with the ability to do so, and do my best to make sure the person I am giving to knows they are worth more than any material goods I can provide.
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 16, 2019 20:19:22 GMT -8
G-d's wisdom in the command to love Him with all your heart, soul, and strength and to love your neighbor as yourself just struck me as I was praying. I realized that I can't really avoid loving Him for anything much beyond what He does for me. A series of thoughts brought me to this thought, "I'm glad I'm not You". Because it sounded disrespectful, I reworded it to "I'm glad You're You and I'm me because I need You to depend on You". And that reminded me of the water in the desert, the complaining, and all the humanity He is dealing with at which point I realized how limited my love for Him really is. And then that hit me with the truth that I can't avoid it as that's the nature of our relationship. I really do fundamentally and absolutely need Him, and that's automatically a limiting reality I face in in regards to just loving Him.
Then, He immediately pointed me to "love thy neighbor"; and I saw His wisdom in teaching me. He commands us how to live and in that we learn what is ultimately beyond us because His wisdom is in His ways.
I just love thinking about how G-d does things and He gave me a deeper perspective on how He is working in ways I don't always see or understand even if it just seems simple. Just uplifting and encouraging that He sees our limits and has amazing and yet very concrete ways to help us grow beyond them.
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 27, 2019 15:32:19 GMT -8
If I look for what G-d has made obviously available for me to do in terms of keeping His will, it's being a wife and a mother. I don't have the opportunity to do the feasts unless I somehow neglect, divide or alienate my family. I'm just looking at my situation and asking what does G-d want me to do with it. I feel like trying to do what He hasn't really given me the opportunity to do rather than just focusing on what He has given me to do has thrown things off. We got some news recently that kind of woke my husband and I up. As a result, we are doing daily family devotions and I'm focusing on just singing and worshipping more with my kids to fill their minds with G-dly things and work together as a family with G-d being more welcome as s whole.
In all of that I just see I can't teach what I haven't learned or experienced. Even if I knew how to keep the feasts well, I don't have the means to it as I don't have a congregation to attend. Meanwhile, I do have a family. Things got kind of knocked down in a good way for us, plans and such, that just gave perspective and opportunity. I'm not perfect, but I do have a whole life with G-d that got me here to draw upon. I used to sing hymns at night as a young girl/teenager, and it was baptist hymns I sang. (I was raised Lutheran, but my mom's side Baptust.) It wasn't until years later that I realized there's verses in the Bible that speak of that and that G-d enjoyed those moments as much as I did. I used to feel kind of silly, but when I look back now, I know that was my truest times of worship. And if I forgot the words, or didn't know the tune, I just made it up. I made up entire songs that I wish I would have wrote down. Anyway, I know I was worshipping and experiencing G-d now because of what Messianic Judaism has taught me, but I just didn't really have a good idea of what that meant at the time.
Anyway, I can't give my kids something I'm not or don't have. I'll speak the biblical truth as best I can. They'll know what I know regarding the Bible, Israel, the Sabbath, and the feast days, but in all truth the only experience I have is a "Christian" one. I think it's kind of deeply sad in a way because I think it's an example of a Kingdom-based need that's yet to be filled that I'm trying to do this on my own, but I think G-d gives us what we need so then I shouldn't be isolated as a result of trying to follow Him. So something is off and I've decided to just consider my family my congregation, but that's then an issue what I can give and teach. That's just not very much I can do then in terms of Mesianic Judausm. Also, when I think of my kids having to endure difficulty in life, overcome difficulties and tension faithfulan, truly drawing upon Spiritual strength, those Baptist hymns are what G-d gave me so that's what I'm giving them. I will teach the truth and open hearts as best I can. They hear me fumble through Hebrew prayers and they hear some Hebrew music and prayers online, but when it comes to strength and place and hope and identity as a child of G-d, those hymns seem to accomplish more for us while the other seems to just be periphery. In all this, I think it's about Israel living up to their calling and us just reflecting that need for them to do that. But as a mother, what can I do and give except what I know. Like I said, Israel is at least in their heart and mind and they have a Kingdom perspective, but my kids need more than concept and ideas for their own good so I'm focusing on passing down what I know of spiritual strength and comfort because I don't see any other opportunity G-d has made available.
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Post by alon on Feb 28, 2019 8:11:17 GMT -8
If I look for what G-d has made obviously available for me to do in terms of keeping His will, it's being a wife and a mother. I don't have the opportunity to do the feasts unless I somehow neglect, divide or alienate my family. I'm just looking at my situation and asking what does G-d want me to do with it. I feel like trying to do what He hasn't really given me the opportunity to do rather than just focusing on what He has given me to do has thrown things off. We got some news recently that kind of woke my husband and I up. As a result, we are doing daily family devotions and I'm focusing on just singing and worshipping more with my kids to fill their minds with G-dly things and work together as a family with G-d being more welcome as s whole. That's at least some improvement that your family is doing devotions together. And you are probably wise to not argue, but instead make it a time to worship and seek God. In all of that I just see I can't teach what I haven't learned or experienced. Even if I knew how to keep the feasts well, I don't have the means to it as I don't have a congregation to attend. Meanwhile, I do have a family. Things got kind of knocked down in a good way for us, plans and such, that just gave perspective and opportunity. I'm not perfect, but I do have a whole life with G-d that got me here to draw upon. Perhaps start with some of the fun stuff, like Purim. It's not a commanded feast, but it would give you the opportunity to share a story and some not too "in yo face" Messianic theology in a non threatening way. And you don't have to do it perfectly. Just bake some treats- you can find traditional ones online, or most anything will do. Get some noisemakers. Have everyone write the name of Haman on the soles of their shoes. Then read the book of Esther, and every time Haman's name is mentioned, everyone should make noise, boo and stomp their feet. I was raised Southern Baptist, and you can do worse than those old Baptist hymns. They will of course contain some theology we find false as Messiachim. But they do have a message and encourage you to think. There's a reason why so many Messianics are former Baptists. You can only do what you can. However I hope you don't give up on Messianic Judaism altogether. The truth is still the truth, and MJ is where I find that. And I think you do too. This forum was, according to a conversation with R Reuel, set up for those like you with no congregation, no place to go. You can find threads on the feasts, on Bible passages, on culture and tradition; almost anything is here in the archives. We try to provide insights and teachings on each week. And while not like having a family of believers, and while admitedly small, we are sort of a family here. And you can always ask questions or just come to be lifted up. As to your own family and your place there, you never know what God will do with them, or what effect your influence there will have. But you only get one chance. So hang in there; stay the course. This is where God put you, so there is a reason. I pray for you daily. Dan C
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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 1, 2019 7:53:26 GMT -8
I think I'm going to focus on helping my husband feel welcome. We've never been on the same religious page except when I converted to Catholicism. He never had G-dly truth in his life so I think it takes the pressure off of not knowing what to do to just read the Bible focusing on teaching the kids because it isn't so threatening. Never underestimate what kids can offer a conversation, especially if you're acting to ensure G-d is involved. They have such a natural way of seeing and questioning things but honestly and innocently. It's just makes it easier to deal with the truth in goodness instead of getting caught up into ego and man's complications. I think if we deal with the word directly, as we're doing, some of those harder edges are no longer much of an issue. I think we need to focus on really fundamental things such as G-d loves you and you're important to Him just because I think my husband doesn't see how he fits in. I think the adversary was pushing my husband away from G-d and using me by making me feel weak and like there was no hope. I think there's now a foundation for the truth and it's just about dealing with it, which is completely possible just through reading the Bible while including G-d. There's been times when my family shocks me with an innocent wisdom I either missed or forgot. As I was trying to do more, the adversary played on my insecurities and uncertainties. They really aren't as concerned with defending themselves or offending others as much as just knowing the truth so I actually feel really supported and encouraged not to get so caught up in the but I'm not Jewish thing. Anyway, I think just strait forward Bible reading and dealing with questions and confusions is going to open up more opportunities to pursue than my previous attempts to somehow work around my husband. Yet, I think it all kind of had to happen that way because there's no way we would have just happened upon this option otherwise that I can see. Now that the Bible is the focus to unite the family and Israel significant even if people don't yet know exactly why or how, I'm hoping things just start falling into place naturally instead of it being me arguing, defending, and debating because that just further divided. I don't know, but there's more to pull together than what I can pull together and me trying to do it has helped in some ways but harmed in others so hopefully this is G-d's way of pulling things together. We have had a really round- about way of getting here now that I think about it. It wasn't until after I came to wanting to keep the Sabbath that the Bible became truly significant enough to me to read it, and my husband is coming from a somewhat more informed perspective in a similar way as He is just now beginning to read it after all that he's seen me try to do and go through. Hopefully it somehow reveals the truth more clearly to Him. I think we all believe in G-d, and I think He's inseparable from Israel in our minds at this point. it's just a matter of what we should do with that, what it means in our lives, and letting it change what needs to be changed. This is where I know G-d has to move because it's simple truths we have to submit to on His terms, but in the world's terms, there's no where to take any of it. So it's between each one and Him, and that's the only way we can live this life successfully I think. He's just wise to call us to Him to submit but depend while humbling and yet protecting us. That's where relationship can begin, and it's so loving as it's also protecting us from the world He knows we face by drawing us to Him in humility that lends itself to faith and dependence. I don't understand it, but I see it is perfect in a way no one else can fabricate. So I think I see some of what He's doing, and it's better than me arguing and worrying because that's where the adversary pit us against each other. Praise G-d He knows what He's doing and is all capable because otherwise all that we'd ever accomplish is messing more then we know up even in our good intentions. We're just not wise or capable to pull it all together. Just glad He's my G-d and He can work with whatever I have to hand to Him.
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Post by alon on Mar 1, 2019 13:18:18 GMT -8
After all you've been through, I am happy to see this post. Yes, you'll accomplish more working together. As long as he does't expect you to worship/pray to idols and tsake communion I think you may be on the right track. And you can mark the feast days with a nice meal and reading the Bible stories. Of course, you'll have Christmas and Easter with him. The kids will really make out on that deal! Just make it fun; it doesn't have to be perfect. Hopefully you can find some middle ground and he will come around slowly. But you have a heart for God and His truths, so I suspect you will come out ok.
I hope you keep coming here. Let us know how you are doing. Also there are others in similar circumstances (like me) who might benefit from your experiences. A couple of people from the church here have told me they miss my input, so I may start going with my wife again. But there are others who I know do not like my input, so I have to be careful. Technically I shouldn't cross the threshold there, but this is one of those areas I'm not so sure of. At least I can share the truth with some of them. But this is all uncharted waters for us. What should we do ... we make the best of the situation we are in. And if we are wrong, there is grace (as long as we don't know it's wrong). Same if we can't keep the commandments perfectly because of an unbelieving spouse.
So hang in there. From what you are saying here you are winning, and it isn't a win/lose thing. Your husband wins too. You will get there, and hopefully the kids will learn to love and respect God.
Dan C
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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 1, 2019 17:09:26 GMT -8
After all you've been through, I am happy to see this post. Yes, you'll accomplish more working together. As long as he does't expect you to worship/pray to idols and tsake communion I think you may be on the right track. And you can mark the feast days with a nice meal and reading the Bible stories. Of course, you'll have Christmas and Easter with him. The kids will really make out on that deal! Just make it fun; it doesn't have to be perfect. Hopefully you can find some middle ground and he will come around slowly. But you have a heart for God and His truths, so I suspect you will come out ok. I hope you keep coming here. Let us know how you are doing. Also there are others in similar circumstances (like me) who might benefit from your experiences. A couple of people from the church here have told me they miss my input, so I may start going with my wife again. But there are others who I know do not like my input, so I have to be careful. Technically I shouldn't cross the threshold there, but this is one of those areas I'm not so sure of. At least I can share the truth with some of them. But this is all uncharted waters for us. What should we do ... we make the best of the situation we are in. And if we are wrong, there is grace (as long as we don't know it's wrong). Same if we can't keep the commandments perfectly because of an unbelieving spouse. So hang in there. From what you are saying here you are winning, and it isn't a win/lose thing. Your husband wins too. You will get there, and hopefully the kids will learn to love and respect God. Dan C Thanks! I don't plan on leaving. One thing that kind of opened his eyes was all the Catholic Church scandal. There's a lot of animosity toward the Catholic Church from within the believing community, but maybe it's an opportunity that has gotten a lot of Catholics attention to help them open up to the truth. It seemed to do that for my husband, and He's culture and country is almost defined by being Catholic whether you actually believe or not. That's a lot G-d was able to break through with all the terrible truth revealed so I think there's opportunity there for truth with other Catholics as well. It kind of calls your whole life and identity into question in a way. It's like all that work the church did to make itself so central is now working to the good for him as its not just a matter of G-d but also culture and history - so how much can G-d help people start addressing in that if they're willing to go there with Him? He can cause them to question all the lies if they are willing and that's a huge step I don't think anyone else could have caused. I keep thinking there's more opportunity on an individual level maybe as life becomes more evil and those false foundations are exposed and shaken up; disillusioned people will hopefully do more searching for G-d and meaning and so forth. I don't know, but if there's people seeking the truth in your life that's probably a good place to be. I think i would worry more about missing an opportunity just because you do seem so firm in what you believe. Paul had to go to pagan nations and Yeshua had to be born into the world and they blessed people with truth. If we are strong enough not to adapt our ways to their's, I think that's the line in my mind at this point, you can probably offer something no one else there is or can. I don't know. Maybe just make sure you keep the lines of communication open with those people who have reached out if you decide not to go. That is hard, but if you're upsetting some and drawing in others, you're making a difference. I don't know how many large scale outreaches we can expect, but I definitely think there are individual ones here and there spanning across denominations. I think there'll be more as G-d exposes corruption and falsity, and keeping to ourselves isn't going to be much good for those people willing to seek and listen. I think just being there is a bigger deal than we sometimes realize even if it seems we're not doing much. I recently started to just make open invites to my house on Saturdays. Just saying I'm always home Saturdays, you and yours visit whenever you can. I think my family situation is good enough now where we can do that. One of my more G-dly friend said she and her family will. I just think I need to focus on small scale longer-term relationships just showing G-d and people we're here, but just wait for Him to move rather than try and push things. Then be there when they show up. I totally learned that from my Grandma - just being a G-dly person whose there for people makes an impression. I would love if Saturdays would become like what she was able to pull off on Sunday. But her home was just generally welcoming all the time. People not even related just felt welcome and you never needed an invite because she was never anything but welcoming. The more unexpected your visit, the happier she was you visited. I didn't realize how rare that was till I got older. I know times change and all, but that's my goal for Saturday's. I think we'll push people away with what we do if we don't intentionally keep ourselves available. That's hard when life today tends to be defined by activities, and those activities don't fit into G-d's commands. I just know my grandma accomplished a way of kind of overcoming that for people. I think the Spirit of G-d was in that because all sorts of people were welcome there, but she did it without compromising any of her own standards. Somehow we were all comfortable and relaxed, but we all behaved well. I don't know, but she accomplished a lot that I didn't realize when I look back because people being comfortable doesn't akways lead to that kind of real peace just anywhere. We often need a sense of formality to pull that off and then the welcome and focus is compromised.
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