Where do people get info which was not in the Torah?

[mystic]

From time to time I come across articles giving info of things or people in the which is not in the so I am wondering where could they have gotten this info or are they just guessing?

Example concerning Leah:

www.ifcj.org/learn/holy-land-moments/daily-devotionals/the-power-of-our-tears/

[alon]

Nov 25, 2020 4:25:04 GMT -8 mystic said:

From time to time I come across articles giving info of things or people in the Torah which is not in the Torah so I am wondering where could they have gotten this info or are they just guessing?

Example concerning Leah:

www.ifcj.org/learn/holy-land-moments/daily-devotionals/the-power-of-our-tears/

The IFCJ does a lot of good, and does bridge the chasm between Judaism and Christianity at least enough that Christians can help bless Israel and the Jewish people. However they are mainstream, Rabbinical Jews. They use many sources, but this one about Leah's weak eyes being from her crying, as well as her destiny being to be wed to Esau sounds like a midrash from Talmud.

Midrashim are stories that illustrate lessons and meanings from Torah, and really were never (my opinion) meant to be taken seriously. However many Jews and some Messianics do give them the same weight as scripture, thus taking them far too literally. There are other sources as well, some good, some not. But you are right to question extrabiblical stories like this that purport to shed light on scripture, as taken the same as scripture they present us with a false and often contradictory theology.

Dan C 

[mystic]

I guess what am I really asking is did someone make up [or guess] these accounts which are not in the or was this written by the people of that time who had witnessed these things?

[alon]

Nov 27, 2020 3:52:24 GMT -8 mystic said:

I guess what am I really asking is did someone make up [or guess] these accounts which are not in the or was this written by the people of that time who had witnessed these things?

That depends on the story. If in the Gemara, then no, it could not have been witnessed by the author. Gemara is the second part of the Talmud written sometime after @200 CE. It can only comment on Torah or Mishnah. Mishnah is the first part of the Talmud. This is the "Oral Tradition," and comments on Torah and events. Often written by men who were there, or who heard the account 1st hand, it is invaluable commentary. It also discusses and sets halacha, however unlike Torah which is absolute these halachic rulings are subject to change depending on circumstances. It's meant as a flexible addition to Torah which makes it workable in all times, places, even cultures.

Besides where an account is found, we also must distinguish between types. Sometimes debates among the ancient sages are given, others just commentary, others are rulings, and some are just stories. The stories are not meant to be taken literally, but rather kind of like our fables meant to teach children values, they make a point. Other times they may be some later rabbi trying to fill in the blanks, but with no first hand knowledge he is just guessing.

I am no Talmudic scholar, and have only a passing familiarity with it. Few Messianic Rabbis and fewer still pastors are very familiar with it. They tend to get themselves into trouble teaching from it, which is why I'm not going to go into depth on it here. I'd tell you something wrong, which I don't want to risk. All I can really tell you is take it back to the source, which is Torah. If it contradicts or seems off, then the story is wrong at least in the literal sense. If midrashic, it may be right in the point it was making, but was never meant to be taken literally or as a true story. But for your purposes, it would still just be wrong. And since we take all extrabiblical accounts to be just commentary, and all commentary can be wrong, we take it with a grain of salt. Doesn't mean it is wrong, just that we must use a lot of discernment. However if in the Mishnah and was written by someone close to the events then I'd give that a lot more consideration; especially more than say a Christian commentator writing centuries later and working off a fundamentally flawed theology. Not that they can't be right too at times, and often downright insightful. Just that one necessarily has more weight, and that would be the eyewitness who is working from our foundational source of ancient Judaism.

Hope that isn't too confusing.

Dan C 

[alon]

mystic, I was thinking about your question, and realized that I hadn't adequately answered it. There are many places a Rabbinical Jew might go to get answers. Just a few:
- the Apocrypha, especially the Maccabees
- books of the Ethiopic Bible
- writings of the Throne Room Tradition
- Apocryphal writings
- Zohar and Kabbalah
- many books we'd call deuterocanonical

All those are Hebrew writings, and they only scratch the surface. Look at what is being found at Qumran! The Jews were prolific writers. Even Torah was changed to suit some sects which, by the time of Yeshua could be called "different Judaisms." Sects like the Samaritans. And all the major sects and schools had writings. How much has survived, I don't know. But some wold have. Some, like the IFCJ will even quote the New Testament! Like Christianity, they have many sources and commentaries. We just were never taught about these.

Hope that sheds a bit more light on your question.

Dan C

 

[mystic]

Got it, thanks! I will look into some of those books. I have read the Talmud and Zohar and have started reading from Rabbi Laitman on Kabbalah:

laitman.com/category/commandments-2/page/2/

but can also use some other material to expand my knowledge.