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Post by garrett on Sept 22, 2020 2:25:12 GMT -8
The disciples, having known the Messiah, and witnessing His death and seeing Him after resurrection, how did they go about observance of the Day of Atonement/Yom Kippur? How did Paul handle the high holy days post-Messiah?
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Post by alon on Sept 22, 2020 10:47:52 GMT -8
The disciples, having known the Messiah, and witnessing His death and seeing Him after resurrection, how did they go about observance of the Day of Atonement/Yom Kippur? How did Paul handle the high holy days post-Messiah?
You speak of Yeshua's death and resurrection, those things that make atonement for sins. So I am guessing your question has to do with salvation. But salvation has not changed from the time of Adam. Join with God's people and worship the One True God and Him alone; then walk with Him according to the instructions you are given. The ancient Hebrews also understood you could repent and turn/return to God at any time. Rachav did not tell the spies "Make sure they don't knock down the walls until Yom Kippur so I can be saved." She had no idea of that, just that she wanted to follow the God of the Hebrews. Melech Dovid did not wait for Yom Teruah to repent when confronted by Nathan. He immediately fell on his face and repented, because they understood then as we do now, you can repent at any time. So the fall feasts were never about the only times we could repent and be saved. They were special times of introspection and seeking God. To this end, I would think the apostles did nothing different.
Dan (hope that is what you were looking for) C |
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Post by garrett on Sept 24, 2020 7:11:56 GMT -8
The disciples, having known the Messiah, and witnessing His death and seeing Him after resurrection, how did they go about observance of the Day of Atonement/Yom Kippur? How did Paul handle the high holy days post-Messiah?
You speak of Yeshua's death and resurrection, those things that make atonement for sins. So I am guessing your question has to do with salvation. But salvation has not changed from the time of Adam. Join with God's people and worship the One True God and Him alone; then walk with Him according to the instructions you are given. The ancient Hebrews also understood you could repent and turn/return to God at any time. Rachav did not tell the spies "Make sure they don't knock down the walls until Yom Kippur so I can be saved." She had no idea of that, just that she wanted to follow the God of the Hebrews. Melech Dovid did not wait for Yom Teruah to repent when confronted by Nathan. He immediately fell on his face and repented, because they understood then as we do now, you can repent at any time. So the fall feasts were never about the only times we could repent and be saved. They were special times of introspection and seeking God. To this end, I would think the apostles did nothing different.
Dan (hope that is what you were looking for) CI have a hard time describing what I'm thinking about these things. What would their perspective be, knowing Yeshua had covered their sins? Obviously their lives would involve continuous repentance for transgressions but would they still go about the commandments the same way, such as bringing flour or an animal for a sin offering? Did they bring first fruits, etc.? Were things still applied in the same manner since the arrival of the Messiah? Just thinking out loud. garrett |
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Post by alon on Sept 24, 2020 7:40:05 GMT -8
... What would their perspective be, knowing Yeshua had covered their sins? Obviously their lives would involve continuous repentance for transgressions but would they still go about the commandments the same way, such as bringing flour or an animal for a sin offering? Did they bring first fruits, etc.? Were things still applied in the same manner since the arrival of the Messiah? ...
After the late 2nd cen when the Rabbonim started changing everything to their liking things would have been different. But the apostles were long gone by then.
Dan C |
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Post by garrett on Sept 28, 2020 0:30:18 GMT -8
... What would their perspective be, knowing Yeshua had covered their sins? Obviously their lives would involve continuous repentance for transgressions but would they still go about the commandments the same way, such as bringing flour or an animal for a sin offering? Did they bring first fruits, etc.? Were things still applied in the same manner since the arrival of the Messiah? ...
After the late 2nd cen when the Rabbonim started changing everything to their liking things would have been different. But the apostles were long gone by then.
Dan C It must have been so strange, trying to figure out what to do after the destruction of the Temple (just like the Babylonian captivity). There would be so many commandments that would go unfulfilled. And to be enslaved and/or imprisoned during each captivity - keeping kosher might have gone out the window, since you have to eat what's available. And what of the Messianic Jews? After being kicked out of synagogues and the destruction of the Temple...I wonder if these displaced communities relied solely on the oral  . Can we assume they had any scrolls in their possession? Who assumed the role of rabbi, let alone a Levite in a scenario like this? They didn't take on the eventual rabbinic Judaism. They just had to go their own way and develop customs and traditions of their own. How does such a displaced people remember what they need to know, and what they want to remember? Take today for instance, imagine having zero access to a Bible? I'm thinking out loud...not sure if there are answers to all these questions! - garrett |
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Post by alon on Sept 28, 2020 2:14:47 GMT -8
It must have been so strange, trying to figure out what to do after the destruction of the Temple (just like the Babylonian captivity). A lot like us.There would be so many commandments that would go unfulfilled. We keep them to the best of our capability, then there is grace. And to be enslaved and/or imprisoned during each captivity - keeping kosher might have gone out the window, since you have to eat what's available. Maintaining life and health is the higher mitzvah.And what of the Messianic Jews? After being kicked out of synagogues and the destruction of the Temple...I wonder if these displaced communities relied solely on the oral Torah. Most of the Notsarim were from the sect of the Parushim, so they wold have had and usede the Oral Torah. But I'm sure they got ahold of copies of Torah and other writings. They formed their own synagogues, because it was to the leadership in Notsarim synagogues the shaliachim wrote the letters which would become our New Testament/Brith Hadashah. These would have been structured as synagogues always were and I imagine they functioned the same, except they now worshiped Yeshua.
Can we assume they had any scrolls in their possession? Who assumed the role of rabbi, let alone a Levite in a scenario like this? Many Levites would have became Notsarim, as there were people from all sects and all walks of life. Many Rabonim also converted. Some synagogues probably changed over entirely, bringing all their scrolls with them. At a minimum 1/3rd of Israel followed Yeshua, probably much more. They didn't take on the eventual rabbinic Judaism. They just had to go their own way and develop customs and traditions of their own. Some, though since they had the Oral Tradition they had plenty of guidance. They actually probably started off just like Rabbinical Judaism did, but soon took drastically divergent paths.How does such a displaced people remember what they need to know, and what they want to remember? It's ingrained in them; almost in their DNA! They practiced it all their lives.
Take today for instance, imagine having zero access to a Bible? I think many of us would remember a lot of it. And don't count out inspiration.
The weirdest part of the whole thing was as Gentiles came into the faith more and more. They had no idea, just a desire to learn. But like today I imagine there were some who had no Torah, no TNK, no guidance ... some may have been proselytized by the emerging churches (not church- that would not even start to form for over 200 yrs). Others would have stayed the course the best they could. Some would hopefully have found this forum ...
I'm thinking out loud...not sure if there are answers to all these questions! Oh, I'll tell you something, whether I know it or not!- garrett Dan (too tired to study, not tired enough to go to sleep, so here I am) C |
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