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Post by mystic on Dec 15, 2018 5:48:41 GMT -8
You are not alone in this fight. Only 30 minutes ago, my wife needed the shopping list and the printer got jammed so I left it alone but she got impatient that I did not fix it, nice way to start the day, huh? i had expected her being a Christian would understand about the Sabbath better than anyone else here. I too married not only "young and wrong" but STUPIDLY so now I have to accept whatever comes my way in marriage.
I try to go to my ultimate sanctuary[happy place] in God whenever any marital issues arise and simply say "Ok Father I know and I accept that I have to pay for my sins" and that somehow helps me.
i am curios what happens after meals on Sabbath, are we not supposed to clean the table and do dishes? That is work.
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Post by alon on Dec 15, 2018 8:56:08 GMT -8
You are not alone in this fight. Only 30 minutes ago, my wife needed the shopping list and the printer got jammed so I left it alone but she got impatient that I did not fix it, nice way to start the day, huh? i had expected her being a Christian would understand about the Sabbath better than anyone else here. I too married not only "young and wrong" but STUPIDLY so now I have to accept whatever comes my way in marriage. I try to go to my ultimate sanctuary[happy place] in God whenever any marital issues arise and simply say "Ok Father I know and I accept that I have to pay for my sins" and that somehow helps me. i am curios what happens after meals on Sabbath, are we not supposed to clean the table and do dishes? That is work. The rulings of the ancient Rabbis was you do no unnecessary work. Cleaning up after Shabbat meals is necessary. Leaving food lying around is a mess, which detracts from the Shabbat experience, can stink and be a health hazard. And for some they use their fine china or whatever as part of their Shabbat experience. Leaving it out to get broken would definitely detract. Me, I'm the opposite- a paper plate type of guy. Food tastes the same, and it's cold anyhow.
There is some discussion about warming food with a fire that was lit before Shabbat. Then we get into the idea of modern appliances being easier to use than maintaining a fire long enough to warm your Shabbat meals in times past. I don't know that I am qualified to really say who is right. All I can tell you is how I do it.
You all know I am in a divided home, so my wife does not prepare meals the day before. So if she does the meal, it will probably be hot. If I do it, it will be cold. I don't use the kettle or microwave or oven; nor do I maintain a fire in the back yard to warm meals. Too hard on the lawn ... . I simply make sure I have boiled eggs in the fridge and something to slice up for a sandwich. Often she either eats with friends or is at some church function, or is just mad at me, so I am on my own, and that does me just fine. There have been a few times when I fasted on Shabbat because someone used my eggs for something and ate my lunch meat. But I usually live. If I am "near death" there is always peanut butter ... well, almost always.
Point is you can work it out. As to a spouse whois antagonistic towards what we do, often we have to make compromises. Just make sure those aren't mostly one way, and that the primary things you compromise on are not too egregious. For example, my wife doesn't like me wearing titzyot, so I tuck my tallit katan in with my shirt when out with her. But I do still wear them.
I advise people not to just "put up with" an unbelieving spouse. Try to make it work amicably for both of you. I'm fortunate to have been able to do this for the most part with my wife. But both must be willing to work at it. You may have to "stand your ground" for a while until they know you are serious. But there usually can be found a mutually agreeable solution that doesn't compromise either's beliefs if both parties try.
Dan
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Post by Elizabeth on Dec 15, 2018 9:52:05 GMT -8
I'm sorry your day is so frustrating Mystic. You have helped me with your posts though so G-d is working through you. Hopefully that encourages you. I need to thank you because your posts have reminded me about my heart when I began doing this so maybe it will help you. As the wife, I really had to think about how am I going to keep the Sabbath when I'm not the head of the house. It's not my place to implement this, but meanwhile, my family needs this. So I really thought about how not to ruffle feathers and make the Sabbath a point of contention.
When I began doing this, I realized I would have fixed the printer. I would have done it while praying to G-d to help me heal the family according to the best I could understand from Yeshua's examples of healing on the Sabbath. I'm not criticizing you because I feel the same way you do today. I just think being the wife caused me to see it from a a more submissive perspective because I had to figure out how to not undermine my husband. Maybe it will help you because you're trying to submit to G-d while not undermining His opportunity to reach your family.
Here's our situation. Our families are spiritually sick and they need to be healed. This was the heart I had in the beginning when I began keeping Shabbat. So I did everything I could the day before. For me it was a fridge full of food, a clean house, clean sheets, and so on. For some reason that became really important to me, that everyone have clean sheets to rest well that day. Now i just make sure they're changed twice a week, but I don't plan it around Sabbath. ( I'm worried you would think we have filthy sheets if I didn't explain that.) Anyway, I prepared and developed my own meaningful traditions. However, for example, I didn't make it an issue to heat up the food for my family or complain if my husband told my kids to pick up their toys. That heart was based on Yeshua's example that I'm working, but so that we can be healed as a family. That means not arguing, not talking back, keeping the peace, and making the day as pleasant as I could for the people around me. I learned that I had more power than I had realized just with the food and being with my kids. People are pretty content when a mom does her job well and so it wasn't so much pull to do much more than eat and play with the kids. I also had a heart of regular prayer "forgive me, forgive my husband, teach my kids like they're Your's, and see this "work" I'm doing as my only option for our spiritual wellbeing. We need to be healed. Please heal us and bring us to a place where we can keep Your commandments more fully."
That was my heart and I honestly think those prayers have carried me through a lot of trouble as G-d has been faithful to them though I haven't. For example, He used you to remind me what He already taught me.
This is the only way I have found that worked, keeping the day as a way for G-d to heal the family. So whatever situations come up that conflict are a prayer in and of themselves because you keep G-d's heart and do it in the heart of healing and restoration.
I had forgotten that approach and your posts have helped me remember that was when things were going well, but in truth I was exhausted at the end of the day. But the exhaustion wasn't depression and anger it was more about how much I had to engage with other people and adjust my heart and mind to stay in G-d's will for the sake of peace, unity, and goodness. But I always felt closer to G-d and the entire week was about getting to the next Sabbath so I think that's the place I need to be. I loved preparing the day before, and yesterday, I really started preparing like I used to. I now know that's necessary for me to have the right heart. I stopped because I felt guilty not doing school,but if I look, I think I can find places of hope. My husband enjoys doing homework with the kids so I'm going to try to shift more work to Sunday so I don't feel so much conflict and pressure on Friday.
I think we need to see us keeping the Sabbath in the context of Yeshua's healings of people. We're in spiritually disabled or ill families. We can see that this prevents us from keeping the Sabbath in a spiritually similar way to the people who couldn't because of physical disabilities. Our families need to be healed for us to keep the will of G-d. Here's our hope and place, Yeshua healed them.
I'm actually excited to remember this now. I did everything I could to prepare and avoid work, but then I also was available to act on the Sabbath for the sake of not alienating and pushing my family away from G-d. I think that's the best approach I've found to the delicate situation we're in, and I think it's consistent with Yeshua's example. I used to constantly remind myself that G-d is more merciful than my husband. He knows my situation, and that was my heart often times when there was a conflict between the two. He seemed to approve of my approach as I truly did enjoy the day and I just know He Was with me throughout the day.
Going to to try and get back to that heart. Maybe it's a good approach for you too. I came on here because today has went much better. I wanted to thank people for their prayers and you for helping me re-evaluate things and remember. Then I saw your post, and I believe G-d is working through all of us to help us because maybe this will help you. I really believe people's prayers have helped me, and you have helped me remember the love I had at first. (Rev 2:4). Its nice to be excited about the Sabbath again, and I hope this means I'm finding my way back.
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Post by Elizabeth on Dec 15, 2018 11:52:36 GMT -8
You are not alone in this fight. Only 30 minutes ago, my wife needed the shopping list and the printer got jammed so I left it alone but she got impatient that I did not fix it, nice way to start the day, huh? i had expected her being a Christian would understand about the Sabbath better than anyone else here. I too married not only "young and wrong" but STUPIDLY so now I have to accept whatever comes my way in marriage. I try to go to my ultimate sanctuary[happy place] in God whenever any marital issues arise and simply say "Ok Father I know and I accept that I have to pay for my sins" and that somehow helps me. I honestly think it's the rare occasion in our culture that marriages begin holy and between two truly consenting people. I just think our culture is immature and kids aren't generally taught to really understand what they're committing to so then they can't really consent to the truth if they don't know it. Meanwhile, they aren't being prepared for a family, at the best they're being prepared for a career. So they don't know what they're promising and they are not properly prepared for marriage. People will say that they're just too young to understand, but I don't believe that's true. I believe it's just a result of living in an unG-dly and immature culture that isn't teaching them in words or example. I think G-d will have to move to straiten this issue out eventually because the lines are going to become insurmountable at some point - believer or not. So marriages will hopefully becone a source of faith and strength for the generations to come and their kids because I think they're going to need it to spiritually survive. That's what I hope and believe. G-d wasn't important to me when I got married and that's not my husband's fault so he did have a bit of a curve ball thrown at him when now He's the center of my life. I knew better. Don't be unequally yoked was a truth I had heard, but he didn't have a problem marrying me because that's how far away I was from where I should have been. I guess at the time we weren't unevenly yoked. I believe G-d will help us simply because He allowed us to be here. It's still something He can work with somehow.
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Post by mystic on Dec 17, 2018 4:57:58 GMT -8
Right got it, key word "unnecessary", that is what I was thinking as it seems impossible not to have to do anything at all in this household.
I have pretty much accepted things as they are here so I simply focus on God giving me another living option close by, I pray that for myself and my Aunt Daisy.
So I got through my 2nd Sabbath in a much better way this time with the new game plan. I have no issues at all on Friday evenings, it's the loooong Saturdays I have to contend with until I can find something to do in God's will outside of this house.
Anyway on Saturday morning I switched gears this time, I said to myself ok God, you want me to rest then that is what I will do so instead of fighting it i simply decided to give in. I got off my bed at around 7.30 read my daily bible scriptures, had breakfast and at around 9am simply went back to lie down on my bed, I eventually dozed off for however many minutes and when I awoke I was in a lazy mood so I just laid there for while and spent the rest of the day in between praying, reflecting, watching bible documentaries and doing bile studies in between so all in all a lazy day until it was time to get ready for Church.
I even thanked God for giving me the restful day. I looked at it from a viewpoint that I was going to use the rest to prepare myself for the week ahead and that was it.
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Post by mystic on Dec 20, 2018 5:00:55 GMT -8
Hey guys, what happens when there is a family or close friend having an event like a birthday party on a Saturday and can use your physical help?
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Post by alon on Dec 20, 2018 13:16:07 GMT -8
Hey guys, what happens when there is a family or close friend having an event like a birthday party on a Saturday and can use your physical help? There is no outright commandment (that I'm aware of) against birthdays. However in the few places they are mentioned they are spoken of very negatively. There is however a commandment against (unnecessary) work on Shabbat. So I'd say do not plan to help them throw the party. As for attendance, that's up to you. I'll go to b-day parties for my grandkids. I don't want them to have a negative impression of MJ. But don't help throw them, and won't stay too long on Shabbat:Job 1:4 (NASB) His sons used to go and hold a feast in the house of each one on his day, and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. When it says "his day" above, that is thought to refer to the person's birthday. However Shabbat is the Lord's day, therefore celebrating a person's day on Shabbat would be wrong.My opinion.Dan C
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Post by mystic on Dec 21, 2018 5:17:47 GMT -8
What about if they are having a Christian religious occasion, same deal?
Also since I am surrounded by people of different religions, what happens when it's a non-Christian occasion?
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Post by jimmie on Dec 21, 2018 7:31:33 GMT -8
I too married not only "young and wrong" but STUPIDLY so now I have to accept whatever comes my way in marriage. Read more: theloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/4364/chanukkah-resources?page=3#ixzz5aKh0trKzIf what you say is true, I urge you to do the follow post haste: Ezra 10:3 Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law. Otherwise bite your tongue young man. Have ye not read “life and death are in the power of the tongue”? You are truly speaking death into your marriage. With that kind of speak, you will never win your wife by your conversation. My wife was 15 and I was 16 when we were joint into one. By all earthly accounts, our parents, teachers, and friends we were "stupid". They all tried to break our “foolishness”. But we were one and could not be separated. Mark 10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
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Post by mystic on Dec 21, 2018 8:51:46 GMT -8
Well I am glad it turned out well for you but I am divorced.
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Post by jimmie on Dec 21, 2018 9:17:31 GMT -8
I am sorry to here that. The line I quoted made it sound as if you were still married to the wife of your youth.
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Post by jimmie on Dec 21, 2018 9:21:30 GMT -8
my 2 cents on keeping the Sabbath.
Matthew 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? Matthew 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. If you are doing your duty on the Sabbath and your duty profanes the Sabbath you are blameless. I don’t know how it can be said any plainer.
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Post by jimmie on Dec 21, 2018 9:46:35 GMT -8
My 2 cent on birthdays:
Psalms 119:84 How many are the days of thy servant? Psalms 39:4 LORD, make me to know mine end, and the measure of my days, what it is; that I may know how frail I am. Psalms 39:5 Behold, thou hast made my days as an handbreadth; and mine age is as nothing before thee: verily every man at his best state is altogether vanity.
We sing this instead of the standard birthday song. There are no candles to wish over. We only make partitions unto the LORD. There is no gift giving.
Both times Birthdays are mentioned in the Bible someone losses their head.
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Post by mystic on Dec 21, 2018 12:02:58 GMT -8
I am sorry to here that. The line I quoted made it sound as if you were still married to the wife of your youth. No worries, might be my fault. I don't feel comfortable stating the "mother of my kids" to people as then I sometimes need to explain why we both still live in the same house like man and wife. We live in separate rooms and do co-parenting, make household decisions and shopping together just like any regular couple so it's confusing to most people.
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Post by alon on Dec 21, 2018 14:27:39 GMT -8
What about if they are having a Christian religious occasion, same deal? Also since I am surrounded by people of different religions, what happens when it's a non-Christian occasion? I do not attend events from other religions on Shabbat, with very few exceptions. A funeral or wedding might qualify, a pagan feast day would not. The exception is I might make an appearance with family on Christmas, but won't stay; and I won't participate, so I'd be like a wet blanket if I did. But family is a difficult thing. We have hopes of converting them, so we don't want to cut them off, but at the same time we don't want to destroy our witness and disobey God by participating. And family is important.
I don't do Easter or Halloween with them at all, Shabbat or not.
I can't tell you exactly what to do about family of different faiths, other than most of what they do you will not be able to do with them. However you've been here enough to have a handle on the basic principles. Shabbat belongs to HaShem, and going to pagan events is like worshiping other gods. We shouldn't do that on any day. But the offense is especially egregious on Shabbat.
Dan C
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