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Post by garrett on Aug 2, 2017 3:05:46 GMT -8
Hi All,
I've been pondering this lately, mostly wondering which name of the Messiah best fits the context and circumstances in which I find myself.
I live in a decent sized city that hosts people from quite a few different faiths. My city also has a lot of colleges and universities, is a hub for the technology industry and is also a huge healthcare employer. My work brings me in contact with non-jews, jews, muslims, hindus, buddhists, christians, etc.
Interestingly, religion comes up quite commonly - and harmlessly. People like to inquire.
The question I most recently have is....what is the best and most universal way to convey the name of the Messiah?
Personally, it's easy for me to say Yeshua HaMoshiach, the Messiah or even Jesus. But I think it's fair to agree that the majority of the world recognizes the name of the Messiah as "Jesus" since English is so incredibly prevalent throughout the world. It's pretty obvious that people involved in Messianic Judaism are very comfortable with the name of Yeshua....and I think it's plausible that religious/orthodox jews would shudder at the name of Yeshua and even prefer the mention of the name of Jesus instead!
What do you think?
Hope all of you are well - garret
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Post by alon on Aug 2, 2017 4:15:17 GMT -8
I choose my names and terminology based on who I am talking to- especially the name of the Messiah. To you all, He is Yeshua HaMoshiach. To Christians or others that are more familiar with it He is Jesus the Christ. I do always use Christ as a title, not a proper name as the Christians (erroneously) do. But I generally have to give them just a moment to think when I do that.
I do, unless they protest, use Yeshua when speaking to a Jewish person. Jesus just has too many negative connotations to them. But the main thing is I have the utmost respect for whatever name I use. Some Messichim use the name Jesus in a derogatory manner because they say it is a Greco-Anglo perversion of the name. And it did go from Yeshua to the Greek Iesous to Germanic Jesus (Yesus to Germans, the J is pronounced like a Y); and finally the English who can't speak anyones language properly pronounced it "Gee-sus." But however you write or say it, it still refers to God made manifest to us. Therefore I use it with respect. It is also one of the rules here that we respect the Holy names.
Just how I do it.
Dan C
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Post by Questor on Aug 2, 2017 9:32:24 GMT -8
There is a need to be cautious in speaking to people who are not open to Yeshua, as we are intruding on their right to be whatever they want. These days I flat out ask if a person is a 'G-d' person, and also if speaking about G-d offends them. If I get a positive response, I state that I practice 1st Century Messianic Judaism, and then let them take it from there. Being pushy is not going to be helpful as the time progresses into full darkness.
Just yesterday I offended someone unnecessarily by asking if her daughter is considering marriage when she spoke of her daughter living with her boyfriend. I should have asked if they are are in a long term commitment instead, allowing her to open up instead of making her feel judged, because it turned out she was living with her boyfriend too.
It behooves us to be gentle with these people we know nothing of, and throwing any name of G-d at them unless you are speaking only of yourself is going to get dangerous quickly. Naturally, living in SoCal I am automatically in LGBT territory, and everyone has to be tolerant of everyone to stay in a conversation long enough to demonstrate that YHVH is not the bad guy. And if we do not demonstrate it, no one will pay attention to what we say.
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Post by garrett on Aug 4, 2017 8:12:26 GMT -8
There is a need to be cautious in speaking to people who are not open to Yeshua, as we are intruding on their right to be whatever they want. These days I flat out ask if a person is a 'G-d' person, and also if speaking about G-d offends them. If I get a positive response, I state that I practice 1st Century Messianic Judaism, and then let them take it from there. Being pushy is not going to be helpful as the time progresses into full darkness.
Just yesterday I offended someone unnecessarily by asking if her daughter is considering marriage when she spoke of her daughter living with her boyfriend. I should have asked if they are are in a long term commitment instead, allowing her to open up instead of making her feel judged, because it turned out she was living with her boyfriend too.
It behooves us to be gentle with these people we know nothing of, and throwing any name of G-d at them unless you are speaking only of yourself is going to get dangerous quickly. Naturally, living in SoCal I am automatically in LGBT territory, and everyone has to be tolerant of everyone to stay in a conversation long enough to demonstrate that YHVH is not the bad guy. And if we do not demonstrate it, no one will pay attention to what we say. Hi Questor, I was more or less just questioning how others approach using different names during general conversations. Ironically, the conversations and questions are almost always started by the other person I'm with. That seems to make it safer since they started it. But I try to use the "when in Rome" approach. Even people from different countries/cultures seem to clearly recognize the name of "Jesus." Thanks - garret |
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Post by garrett on Aug 8, 2017 1:35:17 GMT -8
Okay - so here is the next question,
With respect to when and how to use the name of Messiah, depending on the person and his/her background:
Whether we like it or not (!!!) the opportunity to witness to people comes up from time to time. Americans in general are more familiar (even at the base level) with Christianity when it comes to the concept of God and Jesus Christ. I am from a Messianic perspective and most would have no clue where to begin with this background.
My question is that I'm trying to whittle down a way to approach and explain the G-d of the universe and the world's Messiah while staying close enough to a person's understanding of what I'm talking about. In other words (for their sake) do we "re-invent the wheel to explain the wheel?"... even though the wheel was invented a long time ago, just forgotten by most. I can imagine the hurdles of a new believer, plus the addition of trying to say, "I'm a Nazarene!"
Seriously, how do we approach the world from our perspective? And I'm especially talking about the person from any walk of life who is sincere and wants to learn from one of us. After all, G-d is serious business. Hasatan is real and the stakes are high when it comes to olam haba (the world to come).
Any suggestions out there? With any hope there are some clean and direct answers.
Hope everyone is well - garrett
p.s. My reason for these questions is because I'm wondering how to be a better witness or representative. It's been on my mind lately, sort of "out of the blue" and I'm looking for ways to get it right when I start off. The way things are these days with the culture, our world, politics running amock and history doing a nice repeat of itself gives me a sense that it's always good to have an answer, especially now. My personal exposure to the world each day is making me feel like more of an alien and a sojourner than ever before.
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Post by alon on Aug 8, 2017 9:20:41 GMT -8
Okay - so here is the next question, With respect to when and how to use the name of Messiah, depending on the person and his/her background: Americans in general are more familiar with Christianity when it comes to the concept of God and Jesus Christ. I am from a Messianic perspective and most would have no clue where to begin with this background. I'm trying to whittle down a way to approach and explain the G-d of the universe and the world's Messiah while staying close enough to a person's understanding of what I'm talking about. In other words (for their sake) do we "re-invent the wheel to explain the wheel?" how do we approach the world from our perspective? And I'm especially talking about the person from any walk of life who is sincere and wants to learn from one of us. I'm wondering how to be a better witness or representative. I'm looking for ways to get it right when I start off. Those are older threads, but may contain some helpful tips. I'd say your first task is to find out if he is a believer, then what it is he believes in. Use the name Jesus if that's what he is familiar with. Later as you start introducing Hebraic terms start using Yeshua. Ease them into it, showing how understanding the Hebrew terms gives a much greater depth of understanding to what you are reading. You don't have to reinvent anything; just show them what is there and give them a better understanding of it. If they are Christian have them read everything to you in context, then ask what they just read. Be patient, as they'll likely parrot what they have been taught. Point out key phrases in the reading and have them explain it to you. The idea is to get them to see it, not just to tel them about it. Hopefully the idea of explaining God won't come up for quite a while. That is a difficult one for many to swallow. But when it does present itself, you'll just have to explain the idea of manifestations vs. the Trinity. Explain it was Tertulian in the 3rd cen who first coined the term "Trinity." Explain this in no way takes from, but rather is a more solid idea of Yeshua as eternally deity from everlasting to everlasting. Any questions on those older threads just ask. We like reviving threads here! And other questions we'll be happy to help with too. Good luck in your endeavors there. Dan C |
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Post by garrett on Aug 9, 2017 9:26:11 GMT -8
Thanks for the input Dan.
It's frustrating for me because so many of my encounters are just a one time thing. A conversation is started up, someone asks me a religious question. But we really don't see each other again due to the nature of my work. It's hard to put the essentials into a very abbreviated paragraph that a person can really take with them.
garrett
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Post by bloodcoveredprincess on Jul 28, 2018 13:46:21 GMT -8
and finally the English who can't speak anyones language properly pronounced it "Gee-sus." Dan C Hmmmmmm.....  |
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Post by alon on Jul 28, 2018 15:20:10 GMT -8
and finally the English who can't speak anyones language properly pronounced it "Gee-sus." Dan C Hmmmmmm..... LOL, my wife was born in Derbyshire, UK. And they absolutely cannot pronounce any other languages other than their own (and that is questionable at times  ). She worked as a waitress for a while in a Mexican restaurant. She mangled the menu so bad at one point the owner came out and said "When will you learn to speak the King's Spanish!?" Dan C |
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Post by bloodcoveredprincess on Jul 29, 2018 3:19:56 GMT -8
Hmmmmmm..... LOL, my wife was born in Derbyshire, UK. And they absolutely cannot pronounce any other languages other than their own (and that is questionable at times ). She worked as a waitress for a while in a Mexican restaurant. She mangled the menu so bad at one point the owner came out and said "When will you learn to speak the King's Spanish!?" Dan C well I can understand how you can say "She" can not do it..... but I don't see where the "They" comes into it..... and where pray my good man do you hail from..... obviously somewhere abounding in talents for languages  |
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Post by alon on Jul 29, 2018 8:37:07 GMT -8
LOL, my wife was born in Derbyshire, UK. And they absolutely cannot pronounce any other languages other than their own (and that is questionable at times ). She worked as a waitress for a while in a Mexican restaurant. She mangled the menu so bad at one point the owner came out and said "When will you learn to speak the King's Spanish!?" Dan C well I can understand how you can say "She" can not do it..... but I don't see where the "They" comes into it..... and where pray my good man do you hail from..... obviously somewhere abounding in talents for languages Texas!  And yes, that is a broad generalization. However it was they who took the German "J" as in "Jawul" and made it an English "J" as in "just;" thus giving us the name "Jesus." The Germans, for their part, were translitering the Greek "Iesus," which was a transliteration of the Hebrew "Yeshu," a common term of endearment for the name Yeshua. Yeshua was not an uncommon name in the time of haMoshiach, as the Jews were expecting and actively searching for the Messiah at the time. The name "Yeshu" appears on many ossuaries of this time period. This by the way is one of the names/common pronunciations we allow here on the forum. It is a very widely used name, and whenever I am talking to Christians or newer Messianics who may be more familiar with this name it is the one I mostly use. Otherwise I use Yeshua, His given name. But either is fine. |
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Post by bloodcoveredprincess on Jul 31, 2018 0:45:47 GMT -8
I call Him..... Mine |
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Post by Elizabeth on Jul 31, 2018 5:57:46 GMT -8
I use Yeshua and it was rediculously hard for me to start using that Name out loud with other people. The verses about being ashamed of Him always hovered in my mind so I forced myself to get over it. I call Him Yeshua now. Now that's just Who He is to me. I actually feel kind of guilty when I call Him Jesus talking to other people, but I'm wondering if i should be more considerate of who I'm talking to. Maybe for me it's about my own heart and why am I choosing to call Him Yeshua or not in that moment. Calling Him be His Hebrew name immediately identifies Him and brings up questions and such. Also, because my husband has an unusual name in English, it always makes a difference to me when I hear someone say his name the right way, as in the way he was named in his language. You just automatically feel closer and somehow more important to them. He tells people to call him by his initials to make it easier, but when they actually want to say his name, it's noticeable and makes a difference. I kind of applied the same feelings to Yeshua. Just my way of respecting Him and trying to connect more with him. There is a difference when someone hears the name their family or culture calls them by. It just has an immediate bonding effect so I guess I kind of projected those feelings onto my relationship with Yeshua. Beyond that I just think Yeshua is a beautiful name and I like the sound of it.  |
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Post by bloodcoveredprincess on Jul 31, 2018 6:18:23 GMT -8
I must admit I prefer Yeshua my self.... I think it is the softer ending... the sound of breath..... because even the sound of His name can breath life into the dead |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 18:48:58 GMT -8
My personal exposure to the world each day is making me feel like more of an alien and a sojourner than ever before. AMEN to this and to Elizabeth's complete post. Dan has provided sound reason and solid teacing as I have already come to find to be usual. |
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- there are 70 faces to 
). She worked as a waitress for a while in a Mexican restaurant. She mangled the menu so bad at one point the owner came out and said "When will you learn to speak the King's Spanish!?"
